Dropsy treatment in the UK

[Fella]

Hi

I have a goldfish in our 45 gallon tank that's ill. He's pineconing a tiny amount (only noticeable if you're very close and he's otherwise moving very normall at the moment) and I was wondering if there were any treatments available for a tank my size? I'm not looking to spend megabucks (even though I value my fish very much) and I'm wanting something effective.

Or alternatively, some people who could tell me that a tiny bit of pineconing (barely noticeable) is normal, that might do me better, and stop me from freaking out

We only bought him yesterday, and I don't know if he's always been like it or we've only just noticed. It's a pretty horrible feeling, and we saw him in the store for 2 months before we bought him. It'd be horrible if he was sick

Any help gratefully received. I'm trying to get photos of the guy, but he moves so fast! I guess that's more good than bad really...

 

[tttnjfttt]

I could be wrong, but the only antibacterial meds I have heard of in the UK are the interpet ones, specifically Interpet no. 9. I could be wrong as I'm in the US, but I do know meds in the UK are very strictly regulated. Good luck wiht this guy.

 

[tttnjfttt]

Not the author of this
"Dropsy"

Dropsy is a bacterial infection that infects the fish from the inside and you will see the scales sticking out from the goldfish's body. They swell up and look like a giant pine-cone. Normally, when you see this stage of the disease, the infected fish will not live for much longer. I would normally recommend putting the fish out of his/hers misery by this point.

Treatment
Dropsy is often hard to treat and is fatal in most cases. There are a few over the counter treatments that have been developed for dropsy, but usually they are ineffective if not administered early on. There are also prescription antibiotic medications available from your vet, but these also must be administered early. Antibiotics are the best course of action for the majority of dropsy cases.

Another approach is to raise the aquarium's temperature slightly (a few degrees higher than usual) and add epsom salts to the water at a rate of 20 mg/L (unless you have salt intolerant fish). Luckily dropsy isn't overly contagious, however if your fish dies, it is best to remove it from the aquarium as soon as possible.

 

[WILDER]

Need to no tank size, how many gallons, how many fish are in the tank, plus water stats in ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,and ph, try some shelled peas and daphnia, if you haven't got the internal bacteria med by interpet the chances are by the time you get it will be to late, you might stand a chance if the pineconing is slight if you have the med now, most of the time it's incurable.

 

[Fella]

Need to no tank size, how many gallons, how many fish are in the tank, plus water stats in ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,and ph, try some shelled peas and daphnia, if you haven't got the internal bacteria med by interpet the chances are by the time you get it will be to late, you might stand a chance if the pineconing is slight if you have the med now, most of the time it's incurable.

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Why would you need to know those things? It's bacterial and the other factors wouldn't necessarily play a part?

But if you want here goes -

We don't have water testing kits, but, The tank has been cycled for 2 months, and the water is odour free and is regularly declorinated and detoxified with seachem prime. The tank is 45 US gallons. It contains 4 goldfish, meaning we're adhering to the 10 gallon rule for fish. 3 of the fish are between 2 and 3 inches (excluding tails) and the sick guy is 5 inches (I'm not even sure he's sick remember). There is also a single chinese hillstream loach in the tank, who is used to devour the algae within the tank.

He's eaten a couple of algae wafers recently, so shelled peas might not be so urgent. I understand they are treatment for constipation, but internal infection? I didn't know that.

Any use?

I'll look into some interpet number 9. Would it be terribly bad for the other members of the tank to be dosed with it? I know meds are better not dosed than dosed, but any experiences people might have had would be great.

 

[tttnjfttt]

The reason why wilder asked for that information, and the reason why I should have also asked for it is fish often become sick when they are stressed. The information you gave will hlep rule out any ohter cuases of disease, including bad water, agression, and over stocking. Its also to try to adress any underlying problems in addition to treating the problem. Kind of like a diabetic given insulin, but no instructions on diet and exercise. These are questions that almost everyone is asked, with very few exceptions, so don't take offense at them. Even members with many posts get asked these questions, and I have seen some claim everything is fine, when in reality it wasn't. It would be good to get a test kit, which I think is VERY useful to own.

As for the peas, I am guessing here, but possibly trying to make sure it wasn't constipation based. You should isolate this fish simply because if he dies in the tank, others will pick at him, possibly spreading the bacterial infection.

 

[WILDER]

Dropsy



Symptoms:

This disease is very common among African Cichlids, and is commonly called "Malawi Bloat," even though it affects fish from Lakes Tanganyika and Victoria. Dropsy is also very common within the Carp family and among Anabantids. It is characterized by swelling of the body and especially abdomen, which causes the scales to stand out with a pine cone appearance. Eyes may protrude or cave in. Reddening at the vent and/or base of fins may be observable as well as body ulcers and long pale feces. In advanced cases, skin discoloration and scale loss may also occur. Sick fish will not show any desire for food. They will often hang near the bottom, resting on the gravel, or at the top, gasping for air. In the latter stages of this disease, the fish may lose its equilibrium and hence ability to swim properly.



Cause:

Three main causes for Dropsy have been identified. The over use of salt (NaCl), prolonged exposure to poor water conditions, and improper diet, which lead to a parasitic infection. Other causes include poisoning, internal injuries and cancerous tumors. The swelling is not the disease itself, but rather a symptom, which is caused by a build-up of fluids in the body cavity due to internal organ failure.



Treatment:

Treatment of this disease is difficult, as by the time it is recognized, permanent damage to the internal organs of the fish will have occurred. Immediate treatment must be performed if there is to be any chance for survival. Metronidazole (Flagyl) and or Clout are the best medications for treatment of Dropsy. Notwithstanding, not much is known for certain about the etiology of this disease and some experienced aquarists use antibiotics to fight Dropsy. For oxytetracycline, baths of 20-100 mg/litre for five days is suggested. For tetracycline hydrochloride, treat with baths of 40-100 mg/litre for five days. And for minocycline hydrochloride a dilution of 250mg/10 gallons of water is recommended. On day 2 change all the water and add the medicine again at the same dose for another 2 days. Increase aeration during treatment. Do not use minocycline a third time in a row. Caution: tetracyclines are photo sensitive so turn the tank lights off during treatment and cover the whole tank with a blanket. If the fish is still eating, you can soak the food in a concentrated solution of the antibiotic before feeding.

You can read more about this disease, treatment, and how to prevent it in the future by reading our article: Malawi Bloat.

 

[Fella]

The reason why wilder asked for that information, and the reason why I should have also asked for it is fish often become sick when they are stressed. The information you gave will hlep rule out any ohter cuases of disease, including bad water, agression, and over stocking. Its also to try to adress any underlying problems in addition to treating the problem. Kind of like a diabetic given insulin, but no instructions on diet and exercise. These are questions that almost everyone is asked, with very few exceptions, so don't take offense at them. Even members with many posts get asked these questions, and I have seen some claim everything is fine, when in reality it wasn't. It would be good to get a test kit, which I think is VERY useful to own.

As for the peas, I am guessing here, but possibly trying to make sure it wasn't constipation based. You should isolate this fish simply because if he dies in the tank, others will pick at him, possibly spreading the bacterial infection.

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Yeah that's cool, I'm only asking because I want to learn. I didn't mean to sound confrontational at all, I'm just keen to learn is all. Thank you, I didn't mean to sound ungrateful at all.

I'll drop him in a couple of peas tomorrow. That'll do no harm.

 

[tttnjfttt]

Nah, you didn't sound too confrontational. If you were, you wouldn't have given all the info you did. Does it make sense why that was asked?

 

[Fella]

Nah, you didn't sound too confrontational. If you were, you wouldn't have given all the info you did. Does it make sense why that was asked?

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It does and it doesn't. While I've got few posts on here, I'd consider myself to be reasonably knowledgable (beyond the point of reading "my first goldfish" whilst on the crapper). But at the same time, I know my laziness in typing stuff out will be my downfall. I should have offered all the info to start...

I'm probably overreacting to be honest. His scales seem very visible and I can't work out whats going on, and I know it's better to catch it in the early stages. I've probably panicked, but better safe than sorry I guess. The things you posted said that they don't act normal when they have it, and their behaviour changes, and that's not him right now.

Thanks for the advice, I'll get some number 9 just in case and feed him peas anywho.

I'll of course update it if it turns bad. Fingers crossed it won't.

 

[tttnjfttt]

The scales on a normal, healthy fish DO NOT Stick out. Honestly with dropsey, if you wait to see if things will improve, the fish will die. Also, keep in mind the pictures you see online tend to be the severe cases.

One thing that happens here is we get people with all ranges of experience from the gold fish in a bowl to peole who are very knowlegable. My rule of thumb is unless I know you from on this board and TRUST you, which is something that has to be earned, I ask for that info.

 

[Fella]

The scales on a normal, healthy fish DO NOT Stick out. Honestly with dropsey, if you wait to see if things will improve, the fish will die. Also, keep in mind the pictures you see online tend to be the severe cases.

One thing that happens here is we get people with all ranges of experience from the gold fish in a bowl to peole who are very knowlegable. My rule of thumb is unless I know you from on this board and TRUST you, which is something that has to be earned, I ask for that info.

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Yeah, obviously I'm aware on a healthy fish they don't stick out, I'm just double checking. They don't stick out massively, or maybe even at all, or maybe it's a trick of the light, either way, I could stare at him all day and sometimes I'd be saying "yeah he's fine" others I'd be tearing my hair out. I'll update on progress.

 

[tttnjfttt]

How long has this been going on for? My suggestion would be to eliminate all light from outside, and have the only light be something from straight above him. Turn the filter off for a few minutes to help the water be a little calmer to minimize distortion. That should give you a better view.

I know how hard it can be to decide if it is a light trick or not. I have only dealt with dropsey once, and from what I remember, the first thing I noticed was his scales were looking "wierd". Then looing down on him, it was clear it was dropsey.

 

[Fella]

How long has this been going on for? My suggestion would be to eliminate all light from outside, and have the only light be something from straight above him. Turn the filter off for a few minutes to help the water be a little calmer to minimize distortion. That should give you a better view.

I know how hard it can be to decide if it is a light trick or not. I have only dealt with dropsey once, and from what I remember, the first thing I noticed was his scales were looking "wierd". Then looing down on him, it was clear it was dropsey.

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We've only had him 1 day. He's been in the tank less than 24 hours (I know we should have quarantined, but alas, we have no quarantine tank) and he's quite hard to catch still, especially with a camera.

Good plan batman. I'll have to wait till tomorrow though, as my tank light has just switched off. I think it'll be alreet. I hope so anyways. Thanks for the help