Don't Think I'm Doin Anythin Right

[arah]

Hi i am quite new to fish keeping and really don't think i'm very good at it I have a 84L tropical tank and have just had so many problems with it. I'll start from the beginning bought the tank from my LFS went home really excitied and set it all up(was so proud of my new tank), i fillled it with treated water and left it for 2 weeks i took water to the LFS and they tested it saying it was fine to put fish in so i went home with 3 dwarf gouramis i got on great bought my own test kit and did everythin right i thought. I went back to thefish store and asked advice on other fish which would be suitable for my tank i bought 2 angelfish and a male siamese fighting fish. Thats when the problems began one of my angels started attacking one of my gouramis i immediately took out the angel and the shop took it back replacing it with two female fighting fish. i treated my tank with medicatedliquid from the fish store and things were looking up then sadly i lost the injured gourami and 2 days later i lost one of the female fighting fish. I feel awful and feel like i haven't done my best for the fish could these two deaths be related or just coincidence any helpful friendly advice would be very much appreciated because i want to do the best for therest of my fish and keep them alive.

Thank Sarah

 

[toshapetriji]

Firstly welcome to TFF you have found a great place to get advice about a fascinating hobby.

Firstly don´t feel too bad. LFS (local fish shops) are notorious for giving out bad advice. Angels can be agressive.

Not sure what you mean by ¨medicated liquid¨ liquid though.

The water you use to fill your tank should be dechlorinated.

Next you need to read the pinned article how to set up an aquarium written by our resident fishy god MissWiggle.

Second you need to take a look at Cycling

You see the problem is that filling a new tank with water and leaving it for a couple of weeks is not achieving anything at all. The minute you add fish you will start to see ammonia levels rising (from fish waste), later you will see Nitrite levels rising and both of these are poisonous too fish.

By cycling your tank before adding fish you are providing the very best chance for your fish to enjoy a long and happy life.

Now I´m sure that at the moment you are feeling pretty down. But the good news is you are beginning a very interesting and enjoyable hobby and even better you have found a place to provide all the support and information you will need to get the best out of it.

If possible try to return the fish to your LGS and carry out a fishless cycle. If this is not possible then be prepared to do lots of water changes. You must keep ammonia and nitrite readings at zero. To measure this you need a good test kit. I would reccomend the API master test kit to do this. Most of us here use it and could talk you through the readings.

Don´t give up, it is a fascinating hobby and many experts here will be very happy to help you get through.

*edit* to correct spelling

 

[arah]

sorry i should have been more specific the liquid i was told to use was called tetra medicare i was told it would help with the wounds on my gourami. Also have spoken to my LFS and was told they couldn't take them back unless i was having severe problems with them and the only reason they took back my angel was because it was aggressive.

 

[toshapetriji]

Ah Ok then you are going to need to do a fish in cycle. Certainly more work but it can be done.

Get the API test kit so you can keep an eye on the readings for ammonia and nitrite that are going to occur in your water. You need to keep changing the water to keep both those readings at zero. This may mean changing water twice a day. Change as much water as necesaary to keep those readings down.

Over a period of a few weeks bacteria will start tp grow in your filter that will consume the ammonia. However that will mean you start to get nitrite. After another few weeks a second bacteria will start to grow that will consume the nitrite. Soon after this the tank will be cycled and you will be able to relax and enjoy your fish.

Don´t be afraid to ask questions.

Good luck

 

[OldMan47]

Sorry about your troubles. You will be doing large daily water changes to do a fish-in cycle. The main chemical that you need, besides a good liquid reagent type test kit, is a good dechlorinator. Many of us use Prime because, on the basis of how much you use, it ends up being cheaper than many of the others. Whatever brand you already have is probably fine so no need to spend money on a new bottle until that one runs low.
The whole process of fish-in cycling can be quickly summarized. You change enough water daily that both your ammonia and your nitrite levels always read no more than 0.25 ppm. In the first few weeks that could be 50% every day with the larger fish that you have. Eventually you will get enough bacteria that the levels will stay under 0.25 ppm by itself. After that, you test to find when your nitrates have increased 20 ppm above your tap water reading between water changes and that helps you judge how large a change you need to do and how often. I know this sounds simple but it really is that simple. The hard part is the number of water changes involved and the constant testing to make sure everything stays good. For a bit more in-depth description of the process, check the link in my signature to fish-in cycling.
When you have a stable cycled tank you can think about adding more fish. In the meantime, if you lose any fish, leave your stocking at the lower level. Another caution, especially during cycling but true at all times, be careful that you never overfeed your fish. Overfeeding kills more fish than most other things.

 

[snapefish]

You are not the first and certainly will not be the last to be given bad anvice by a LFS.

Just a quick one to add to what has been said - Male and female Betta (Fighting fish) are extreemly intolerant of each other and the likely outcome of keeping them in the same tank is one very beaten up fish and all the rest dead. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Females can be kept together as long as there are 6 or more. Males should be kept on their own or with a few compatible fish which unfortunately do not include angels and gourami. Sorry bout that.

To add to what has been said about cycling - if you know of anyone who has a tank up and running for more than 3 months see if you can persuade them to give you a chunk of their sponge from their filter. Keep it wet and get it into your own filter within an hour or so and all the bacteria on it will transfer to your filter greatlt speeding up the whole process.

Good luck

Mark

 

[arah]

THanks for all your help so far been doin about a 40% water change everyday Ph is holdong at 7 ammonia readings at 0.25ppm, nitrites are the same at 0.25ppm and my nitrate reading is 20ppm. My tank is now about 3 months old should i keep doing the daily water changes and sorry don't know anyone that i could get a bit of filter sponge from.

THanks Sarah

 

[OldMan47]

Sorry to need to tell you but your chemistry says you still need to do the daily water changes. What test kit are you using? I have never seen both ammonia and nitrites that were elevated at the same time except quite early in a cycle.

 

[toshapetriji]

Don´t worry too much about your PH reading but you need to get the ammonia and nitrite down to zero. Keep those water changes going until you get those numbers down. Nitrate levels are less of a concern to you at this stage.

There is a stickie at the top of the newbie section of people who can help with mature filter media. Where are you living?

Keep those water changes going.

 

[arah]

Thanks will keep doin the 40% water change daily for just now and will keep you posted haven't lost anymore fish yet so am really happy about that. Living in Scotland, dundee don't have any transport though.

Sarah

 

[arah]

Just thought i would give you a little update not doin to good at all lost another gourami bout an hour ago don't really understand whats goin on my nitrites are down to 0 but ammonia is still at 0.25ppm been doin 50% water changes every day and can't seem to get it down don't want to lose any more fish but don't know what else to do.

Sarah

 

[OldMan47]

What is the reading on your tap water Sarah? Could the ammonia be coming from there? It's just a thought but I know my own tap water has some ammonia in it. If yours has any, you might do better with a few smaller changes and see how that goes.

 

[toshapetriji]

Sarah there is a stickie at the top of newbies of members who are willing to donate filter media. Could you get to any of them?

Can you also give a full set of readings for

ammonia
nitite
nitrate

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Hi there Sarah,

Sorry for all the trouble you've been having so far. as others have said we quite often see this sort of terrible advice from LFS's, it really makes me mad, not only does it put the lives of the fish at risk but it also means a lot of people have a terrible first experience of this wonderful hobby, a lot of people just end up giving up which is a real shame as if they'd been given better advice to start out with they could be doing a lot better.

Don't blame yourself, you're doing everything you can now and we'll do our best to get you and the rest of your fish through this unscathed.

I'm dubious that your tank is still cycling after 3 months, even with a fish in cycle by this time the ammonia and nitrite would normally be holding steady at 0 by themselves, so can you answer the following questions so we can work out if there's anything else that's going on that's inhibiting it. Please be as detailed as you can in your answers, it can be tricky to diagnose over the internet and something that you may think is insignificant may make all the difference to us!

What size is the tank?
Full list of the species you have, how many of each, what gender they are and what size they are?
Full list of the equipment you are running, make and model of filter etc?
What media do you have in your filter? (sponges, carbon, zeolite etc)
What make and model of test kit are you using? Is it liquid reagents or test strips?
Full set of test readings for tank water and for your tap water (pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate)
Make and name of any checmicals you are using, dechlorinator etc?
Desribe your maintenance routine i.e. what you do for water changes, filter cleaning, gravel cleaning etc and how often you do it
What are you feeding, again name of the brand and which product it is, how oftena nd how much are you feeding, are the fish in a frenzy for the food or do they sometimes seem not bothered?

ummmm that'll do to start, might come up with some more things after that!

 

[arah]

Hi can i just say first of all thank you all so much for all your help i am very grateful to everyone who has given me advice so far so thanks again. Here goes i will try and be as detailed as possible with my answers. I have a 84 litre tank(not quite sure what that is in gallons sorry), the equipment i am ruuning is a fluval 2 plus filter and a fluval tronic heater 100W these both came with the tank also with the tank was a sun glo light fitted into the top of the hood and a glass thermometer which is attached to he glass on the inside of the tank. The media in my filter are just sponges although the first time i cleaned my gravel i was advised to pt a carbon filter in to help clear the debris this was only in for a couple of days then removed. I currently have 5 fish in my tank as i have lost three so far these are 1 male dwarf gourami, 1 male siamese fighting fish, 1 female fighting fish, 1 male angel fish, and a pleco which i was told would only grow to about 6 inches but i am starting to worry i have been given incorrect information on this, i am trying to get a good pic of him to put on here but so far no luck(he likes to hide). My gourami is 2 inches long, the fighting fish are around 1 and a half inches long, the angel is around 2 and a half inches long and the pleco is around 2 inches long. The test kit i am using is the nutrafin master test kit and have also been using interpret fresh start to treat any new water going into the tank. Also was using tetra medicare to treat the water as one of my fish that died was injured and i was told this would help with the wounds. Also when i first set up the tank was using interpret filter start also on the advice of my LFS. The readings for my tank are as follows ammonia 0.25ppm, nitrite 0, nitrates are 20 ppm and ph is 7.5. The readings for mt tap water are ammonia 0, nitrites 0 and ph 6.5. I am feeding the fish on nurafin max flake food they are getting feed once a day usually 2-3 big flakes they don't go into a frenzy but they do all come to the top of the tank when i open the hood. For maintenence i was doin weekly water changes of between 25-30% i upped this to 40% last week then 50% for the last few days(daily) i have cleaned my gravel 4 times since i got the tank so once a month and i have special magnets that i got from the fish shop for cleaning my glass which i also do once a week. Hope these answers are detailed enough if not jsut ask and i will try to give more detailed answers.

Thanks Sarah.