Domino Hosting In My Nem!

pengy666

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Its an old picture but thought you guys might wanna see it! It is known but not many people saw it before!


If you look carefully you can see him in the left hand side!

Tank62a.JPG


Here I circled him so you can see him

Tank61a.JPG
 
That's one of those 'not-all-damsels-are-clownfish-but-all-clownfish-are-damsels' type of things.
 
SOMEONE BOUGHT HIM?

Bet they sold him for £7

Robbing gits down there!

I noticed one week your chromis were priced at £4.95 for smalls and £6.95 for "larger" ones, then next week they were all £6.95

LOL.

I did like him tho he was cool! shame aint it!
 
My domino is constantly trying to sneak into the anemone. Poor little guy has a chronic crypto infestation, but the maroon will have none of it. He does usually get to hang around the sides of the anemone.

The domino damselfish likely represents an evolutionary intermediate; that is, it's "evolving into a clownfish". It's not at the point that it's an obligate symbiont (as they are frequently seen in large colonies no where near an anemone) but have developed the ability as another option for survival. Like neon gobies and cleaning behaviour.

Honestly I don't see why creation is even considered anymore...
 
small ones were £4 and larger ones were £6 got smalls in sto see if they would sell since we got them in cheaper instead of putting them at £6 we put them at £4 for a better price clearly :p



dunno how much the damsel went for i guess not alot he went to a damsel tank, as for aggresion he was fine with the jewled puffer!!
 
My domino is constantly trying to sneak into the anemone. Poor little guy has a chronic crypto infestation, but the maroon will have none of it. He does usually get to hang around the sides of the anemone.

The domino damselfish likely represents an evolutionary intermediate; that is, it's "evolving into a clownfish". It's not at the point that it's an obligate symbiont (as they are frequently seen in large colonies no where near an anemone) but have developed the ability as another option for survival. Like neon gobies and cleaning behaviour.

Honestly I don't see why creation is even considered anymore...


this is amazing, we agree on something.... :)
 
The domino damselfish likely represents an evolutionary intermediate; that is, it's "evolving into a clownfish".

No offense but wow! Your evolutionary hypothesis here is pretty far out in left field seeing as how many damsels are apt to host in an anemone - hence, the reason why they are often referred to as 'anemonefish'...in fact, to support this statement, read the info/ideas that are HERE - or do a quick web search to dig up some more supporting info on this topic. To sum up my point a little bit further...

It's not at the point that it's an obligate symbiont (as they are frequently seen in large colonies no where near an anemone) but have developed the ability as another option for survival. Like neon gobies and cleaning behaviour

...damsels can, will, and do form a symbiotic relationships with anemones. While I am sure that someone may have seen large 'colonies' of damsels far from an anemone (which, I also have further doubts about since schooling/shoaling is not really normal with territorial fish -- which I admit, could be a wrong assumption), I have no doubts that someone has found a damsel or two hosting in an anemone. In fact, based upon a recent article that I found - which I will try to find again - it may be somewhat common to find a clownfish away from his/her anemone...although they do travel back to it later apparently.

While I am at it, it should also be pointed out that some inverts even hold a symbiotic relationship with anemones!

Again, I mean no offense to anyone, especially you Lynden, but I thought this should be cleared up now before anyone is overly misled. Obviously the best proof of a damsel hosting in an anemone is in pengy666's pictures.
 
The family Pomacentridae splits into two subfamilies, the one including clownfish and dominos (Amphiprionidae) and the other including all other damselfish. Domino damselfish are the only creature commonly reffered to as 'damselfish' that will host in a nem. No others will do so (except perhaps in extremely rare occasions), not in the wild or in captivity though many do "hang around" cnidarians in the wild.

Clownfish, in the wild, are obligate symbionts with anemones. The leave for short feeding trips but always return to the anemone. Dominos, by comparison, are facultative symbionts. They can live in an anemone, but mostly do not. If they find an advantage living in anemones, they may evolve into a clownfish like animal - losing their adaptations for fast movement in strong currents like other amphiprionines already have, since they wouldn't need them anymore and they would be "weeded out" by natural selection.

I read the info on the link; I am familiar with this website and it also states that fishes are in their own phylum ('Actiniform') which is simply rediculous.

Also you state that territorial fishes do not shoal or school. This to me indicates you need to do some more research before slagging someone else's facts. Most of the fishes that must be kept singly in captivity are shoalers or schoolers in the wild - the territoriality in aquaria results from a fish tank being smaller than a sea.

I should also point out that the fact that a great many invertebrates do indeed host in anemones, and all of these have evolved similar characteristics as clownfish; for example bright colours, exaggerated features, et cetera. This is called convergent evolution and it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread above. ;)

No offense meant to you, but seriously, don't bother criticizing someone else if you don't have a clue what you're typing about. :rolleyes:
 
No offense meant to you, but seriously, don't bother criticizing someone else if you don't have a clue what you're typing about

Ouch! I thought this site was known for its open minded members that can take critisizm...which I certainly can myself and please don't feel otherwise when I point out that I certainly do know what I am typing about. That being said, I applaud your efforts, but you have already disproved yourself since you have already contradicted initial post as to domino damsels hosting in anemones is some sort of evolutionary anomaly when they have been known to do so for much longer than pengy666's has been.

Additionally, it is pretty clear that it is the anemone fish's slime coat which allows it to live in an anemone without being 'stung' by it, although it may not be clear as to what is the actual difference from other slime coats that give this ability. That being said...

I should also point out that the fact that a great many invertebrates do indeed host in anemones, and all of these have evolved similar characteristics as clown fish; for example bright colours, exaggerated features, et cetera. This is called convergent evolution and it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread above.

...are you trying to imply that coloration and characteristics are what give this ability? Or are you trying to imply that every invert that can live within or travel over an anemone must also have the same mucous-like coating?

It the anemone shrimp all that much different looking from other shrimp?

The anemone crab looks pretty much like other crabs as well, IMHO.

Other than perhaps color, the anemone hermit crab also looks just like most other hermits we commonly keep.

But I suppose it may be somewhat odd that the Pom-Pom crab does carry two anemones in each claw.

====================

Don't get me wrong here, I was not trying to offend anyone, nor imply that I know everything and everything there is to know about marine life (however, don't be fooled, I may be new to the forum, but not the hobby and in fact, have kept/am keeping a wide array of marine livestock), however, I was certainly trying to imply that it seemed as though you were trying to imply that the domino damsel hosting in an anemone is some sort of 'freak' of nature, when it really isn't....and I thought I would point that out. Additionally, I have kept a Blackmouth Bicolor Chromis (aka, blackmouth damsel) which hosted a significantly large carpet anemone until I had to remove the anemone for the safety of my other fish...which were all docile fish (i.e. foxface, bannerfish, chromis, mandarins, among others) that should not have posed any huge reason for it to host when it otherwise should not. Granted, I realize this is different than in the 'real world', but still, the point is valid.

I also agree that many times we must keep schooling fish singularly in our aquariums, but really only for a few reasons:

1) It would require a HUGE tank to keep a school (e.g. tangs, since they need a lot of swimming room)

2) We would need to purchase many expensive fish at one time in order to do so, and the ability would be lost if we try to add them at different times

3) Being a closed system and with the fact that saltwater fish are more sensitive to water chemistry/quality, we simply cannot add the significant number of fish which would constitute much more than a couple mated pairs.

However, it is true that we can keep multiple damsels in the same tank together, and currently I have quite a few (7) yellow-tail blue damsels and they do not school/shoal in the least, even with the presence of a predatory fish such as my lionfish giving them a theoretical reason to school/shoal.

And I do not think I am all that far off on the idea that territorial fish do not school/shoal often, even if there are exceptions and would add that the fish you may be thinking of are not really territorial, only less tolerant of conspecifics in an aquarium setting, especially those of the same sex since it is very true that we can, and many do, keep schools of tangs...heck, I have even kept multiple dwarf angels in the same tank together without any issues at all and would say this is quite possible for anyone if they have a large enough tank, live rock, and possibly other things I am forgetting about right now.

So, thanks for agreeing with me and again, I meant no offense and took none myself either...just enjoying a good conversation.
 
Cool, I like lynden he gets to the point and some people dont like that ;) and it seems tommy gun is the same!

That is a very early picture too! Just before I shut down the nano they were in the domino was in the amenone as soon as lights went out, Im talking full on in there! sleeping!!

And since I on the subject my cleaner shrimp would not move from the side of the anemone all the time I've had it! only since I have got another cleaner shrimp has he moved away! but most times you can find him sat there having a cuppa with the nem! catching up on 'ol times!

:)

Yet my two clowns have not been anywhere near it! its been two months now!
 
Cool, I like lynden he gets to the point and some people dont like that ;) and it seems tommy gun is the same!

That is a very early picture too! Just before I shut down the nano they were in the domino was in the amenone as soon as lights went out, Im talking full on in there! sleeping!!

And since I on the subject my cleaner shrimp would not move from the side of the anemone all the time I've had it! only since I have got another cleaner shrimp has he moved away! but most times you can find him sat there having a cuppa with the nem! catching up on 'ol times!

:)

Yet my two clowns have not been anywhere near it! its been two months now!


such a brittish thing to say lol :p

Anyway, with ANY fish or invert there is never a garuntee they will accept the anemone you give them, this goes with most symbiotic relationships like gobies and pistols etc.

Anyway, pretty neat you got a damsel hosting nem.
 
Cool, I like lynden he gets to the point and some people dont like that ;) and it seems tommy gun is the same!

Not sure if that is a good thing or not, but I am glad some points got across...again, I don't really disagree with Lynden, nor you in that this is may not be a common site in the aquarium, but it obviously can happen and I just wanted to say that it really shouldn't come as a huge surprise...cool surprise, yea, but not completely unexpected.

Anyway, with ANY fish or invert there is never a garuntee they will accept the anemone you give them...

Very true...and to add to that, not every sort of clownfish will just host in every sort of anemone either. Not that I claim to be an expert on this topic, hence, I can't say for sure if the list is 100% accurate or not, I believe the website you can view by clicking HERE will provide more insight into anemones and their various clownfish hosts. Additionally, if your domino damsel is already hosting in the same anemone you are hoping your clowns might as well, I would think your chances of that occurring are slim to none unless that damsel 'moves' or otherwise is removed from the equation since, as I am sure you know, damsels are extremely territorial and will go to great lengths to defend that territory, including an anemone. In fact, I once took this pretty funny video of my clownfish literally attacking my hand every time I came remotely close to the anemone they had been hosting for quite some time. Anyways, to take the opportunity to selfishly promote a video of one of my tanks, click HERE to see for yourself...oh, and if you listen close, you can almost hear the tension! :D

Lastly, while I cannot remember why or how I came to this thinking, I believe I read/heard that, even though an anemone may be apt to accept different hosts throughout its life time, clownfish may not host in another anemone if the original one dies or is otherwise unavailable. However, I am not 100% sure on that and I am just throwing out there in case someone else can verify or put me (us) on the right track. To be honest though, when I first started out in this hobby, I had what is sort of 'back wards luck' with clowns and anemones because I have had my current Sebae anemone for just shy of a year, but had some rather rocky times with keeping clownfish alive at first (for the record, I have that ironed out nowadays). My point here is that I cannot remember one instance in which any of my clownfish have hosted twice in different anemones...which one at least one occasion, could have happened after I removed the Sebae anemone to another tank sans moving the clownfish to make room for that giant carpet anemone I think I mentioned before. Obviously not absolute proof as to the 'second anemone' theory, but it could be supportive to some degree.

this goes with most symbiotic relationships like gobies and pistols etc.

I also agree with this whole-heartedly because my Achilles Tang refuses to be cleaned by my cleaner shrimp or my coral banded shrimp....which is disheartening because that just adds that much more challenge to keeping them healthy and alive. So, I think the one lesson I have learned from this is that it is never safe to assume a symbiotic relationship will be formed, which again, can become an issue for us if we have added one or the other solely to perform a beneficial task.
 
but you have already disproved yourself since you have already contradicted initial post as to domino damsels hosting in anemones is some sort of evolutionary anomaly when they have been known to do so for much longer than pengy666's has been
I did not once say that pengy's domino was an anomaly. I have seen two others first hand in aquaria that host in nems. The species represents an intermediate, not an anomaly. Read my posts before you try to make me sound like a moron.

It the anemone shrimp all that much different looking from other shrimp?
Are clown fish "all that much" different from other fish? No... but they do have several features that most other's don't. The shrimp has features that most others don't, like it's gaudy colours, for instance.

The anemone crab looks pretty much like other crabs as well, IMHO.
Is there any crabs that truly DON'T look like a crab? There's more to life than looks...

The hermit and the pom-pom are a different deal altogether. They do not live within anemones; they host anemones (as opposed to being hosted themselves).

I have kept a Blackmouth Bicolor Chromis (aka, blackmouth damsel) which hosted a significantly large carpet anemone until I had to remove the anemone for the safety of my other fish...which were all docile fish (i.e. foxface, bannerfish, chromis, mandarins, among others) that should not have posed any huge reason for it to host when it otherwise should not. Granted, I realize this is different than in the 'real world', but still, the point is valid.
Now this is what one would call an anomaly. Or perhaps just an intermediate?

I also agree that many times we must keep schooling fish singularly in our aquariums, but really only for a few reasons:

1) It would require a HUGE tank to keep a school (e.g. tangs, since they need a lot of swimming room)

2) We would need to purchase many expensive fish at one time in order to do so, and the ability would be lost if we try to add them at different times

3) Being a closed system and with the fact that saltwater fish are more sensitive to water chemistry/quality, we simply cannot add the significant number of fish which would constitute much more than a couple mated pairs.
You forgot one. The fact that the complex social relations in schooling fishes become malformed and "fall to pieces" when kept in hobbiest sized tanks. Which was, of course, my point.

However, it is true that we can keep multiple damsels in the same tank together, and currently I have quite a few (7) yellow-tail blue damsels and they do not school/shoal in the least, even with the presence of a predatory fish such as my lionfish giving them a theoretical reason to school/shoal.
In the wild, yes they are grouping fishes. But they do not shoal, similar to the way blue devils are, living in separate territories in the same area.

Lastly, while I cannot remember why or how I came to this thinking, I believe I read/heard that, even though an anemone may be apt to accept different hosts throughout its life time, clownfish may not host in another anemone if the original one dies or is otherwise unavailable.
They certainly do, I've seen it happen in my own tanks, more than a year ago.

I think what may have happened here is that we majorly misunderstood eachother; I'm getting a little confused because you seem to be countering my points with, well, differently worded versions of my points. ;)

Either that or you and Musho got together and said "Hey man, let's go @#$% with that stupid know it all teenager on that forum!" "All right, dude! I'll wear 'im down with a pointless argument on tangs and you finish 'im off by deliberatly misunderstanding him at every point!" "Duuuuude!"

Which one is it then? :lol:
 

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