Disappointed At Lfs

[scotty]

i visited a local well known fish shop today,just for a look around at the fish,told the guy working there i would hopefully be getting fish once my tank was cycled,explained i'm around day 50 of my fishless cycle,he couldn't believe it,said they recommend 7 days,then bring a sample of the water for them to test,then i could add fish gradually,i said i have seen it this far i would see it out,he said i take it you got your info from the web,i said yes,he just shook his head.looks like lfs are out to make a quick turnover

 

[Truck]

there's nothing wrong with adding fish to an aquarium without cycling it, it just means that you're going to have to do a fishin cycle.

 

[scotty]

i know that,it was just the way he dismissed the advice i have recieved from people of this website

 

[anwhyte]

there's nothing wrong with adding fish to an aquarium without cycling it, it just means that you're going to have to do a fishin cycle.

well, what did you expect?

 

[LilyRose Tank]

STRANGE, a lad in the pets@home store in Trostre Llanelli said it was nice to speak to someone who knew what was best for fish and knew what they were doing, and that the advise I had recieved from this forum was first class!! I guess there are some who are not out to just make money and who care

 

[fishyfeet]

day 50 blinking heck, cycled mine in a month, must be some tank. di

 

[scotty]

i'm lucky,theres some guy on about day 116!!!

 

[neilp4]

I'm into day 70, and if the Nitrites don't start going down soon I'm going to start eating them myself.

 

[waterdrop]

Comparing the number of days it takes to fully cycle a filter is certainly fun but of course carries little information as a comparison. We are comparing tanks with water sources from all over the world.

The water chemistry can greatly vary. The *number* of chlorine/chloramine resistant "starter" Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira spp. in a given household's tap water is totally random and makes a huge difference in the time the fishless cycle will take. The number of mutations and the amount of species divergence in bacteria is astounding (150 million suspected species and counting?) and so the small variations in both our species will always be changing and it won't be the same in all places by any means.

Very few beginners comprehend all the basic optimal bacterial growing environment information at first and its easy for anybody to make mistakes. Not all people necessarily like to report their mistakes on a public forum so there are probably plenty of things that happen during fishless cycling that are just plain dumb but we just don't hear about in the threads. Lots of fishless cycles that I've seen will just sit at pH 6.0 for a week or more sometimes before one of us notices that the beginner is not testing for pH! Lots of stuff like that. Plenty of threads have mature media involved as a wild card in the process!

All of this adds up to the huge range of days we see for cycle completion. Anway, that's my 2 drops of water.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Assaye]

i visited a local well known fish shop today,just for a look around at the fish,told the guy working there i would hopefully be getting fish once my tank was cycled,explained i'm around day 50 of my fishless cycle,he couldn't believe it,said they recommend 7 days,then bring a sample of the water for them to test,then i could add fish gradually,i said i have seen it this far i would see it out,he said i take it you got your info from the web,i said yes,he just shook his head.looks like lfs are out to make a quick turnover

Bingo.

Many old-time fish keepers and lfs workers believe one thing - the web is full of reactionary radicals who don't know anything about "proper" fish keeping.

If I had the luxury, I would politely explain that I want to establish the nitrifying bacteria in my filter before adding fish and enquire as to what objections he could have with that. Generally they think that "ammonia isn't that harmful" or that "it's just a waste of time" or that "hardy fish will be fine" or even that "just using ammonia won't grow the right bacteria".

We have science, they have training manuals published by corporations that want to create a series of clones that will bring in the £££. Or they're an old-time fishkeeper who has "never had any problems" and doesn't see why people pay attention to all this modern clap-trap.

 

[waterdrop]

i visited a local well known fish shop today,just for a look around at the fish,told the guy working there i would hopefully be getting fish once my tank was cycled,explained i'm around day 50 of my fishless cycle,he couldn't believe it,said they recommend 7 days,then bring a sample of the water for them to test,then i could add fish gradually,i said i have seen it this far i would see it out,he said i take it you got your info from the web,i said yes,he just shook his head.looks like lfs are out to make a quick turnover

Bingo.

Many old-time fish keepers and lfs workers believe one thing - the web is full of reactionary radicals who don't know anything about "proper" fish keeping.

If I had the luxury, I would politely explain that I want to establish the nitrifying bacteria in my filter before adding fish and enquire as to what objections he could have with that. Generally they think that "ammonia isn't that harmful" or that "it's just a waste of time" or that "hardy fish will be fine" or even that "just using ammonia won't grow the right bacteria".

We have science, they have training manuals published by corporations that want to create a series of clones that will bring in the £££. Or they're an old-time fishkeeper who has "never had any problems" and doesn't see why people pay attention to all this modern clap-trap.

Ahh, really interesting post Assaye! Very observant of you to pick apart the more detailed responses one gets from the "What are your objections" question. When I have the luxury I often -do- try to engage them more deeply. I find when you do this, the deeper you go, the harder and harder it gets to stereotype, at least in some cases. They are just all over the place with their various understandings and beliefs. I've had a few very interesting cases. Once, I found that a particular shop person who turned out to be quite in agreement with most of the things we talk about here but who I noticed more or less squelched those things in conversations with other customers. There is unfortunately a very real conflict with trying to survive in a marginal business like independent tropical fish shop keeping and the kinds of simplicity and savings that can be had in said fishkeeping once one gains the knowledge of what supplies or processes are truly needed. WD

 

[Assaye]

i visited a local well known fish shop today,just for a look around at the fish,told the guy working there i would hopefully be getting fish once my tank was cycled,explained i'm around day 50 of my fishless cycle,he couldn't believe it,said they recommend 7 days,then bring a sample of the water for them to test,then i could add fish gradually,i said i have seen it this far i would see it out,he said i take it you got your info from the web,i said yes,he just shook his head.looks like lfs are out to make a quick turnover

Bingo.

Many old-time fish keepers and lfs workers believe one thing - the web is full of reactionary radicals who don't know anything about "proper" fish keeping.

If I had the luxury, I would politely explain that I want to establish the nitrifying bacteria in my filter before adding fish and enquire as to what objections he could have with that. Generally they think that "ammonia isn't that harmful" or that "it's just a waste of time" or that "hardy fish will be fine" or even that "just using ammonia won't grow the right bacteria".

We have science, they have training manuals published by corporations that want to create a series of clones that will bring in the £££. Or they're an old-time fishkeeper who has "never had any problems" and doesn't see why people pay attention to all this modern clap-trap.

Ahh, really interesting post Assaye! Very observant of you to pick apart the more detailed responses one gets from the "What are your objections" question. When I have the luxury I often -do- try to engage them more deeply. I find when you do this, the deeper you go, the harder and harder it gets to stereotype, at least in some cases. They are just all over the place with their various understandings and beliefs. I've had a few very interesting cases. Once, I found that a particular shop person who turned out to be quite in agreement with most of the things we talk about here but who I noticed more or less squelched those things in conversations with other customers. There is unfortunately a very real conflict with trying to survive in a marginal business like independent tropical fish shop keeping and the kinds of simplicity and savings that can be had in said fishkeeping once one gains the knowledge of what supplies or processes are truly needed. WD

I totally appreciate that not all lfs people are idiots or would disagree with our methods. However, the ones who tut tut and ridicule online communities when they have already been told someone is approaching the hobby with caution and science at their back are usually the kind I won't sympathise with.

Heck, I work in a lfs and I've got to throw my principles to the wind to keep the job. I never get to have a decent intellectual scrap with lfs workers because I work at my lfs, LOL.

 

[K-Holed]

Heck, I work in a lfs and I've got to throw my principles to the wind to keep the job.

That's always going to be a tough descision. Do you stick to your principles and refuse to work there? Do you take the view that, although you know you're not giving out the best advice, it's better than if you weren't there because you can exercise damage limitation. Or do you just turn a blind eye because it pays the bills?

It's certainly not an enviable position in many ways.

 

[Assaye]

I've wrestled with that question.

I take the view that I can make sure the best advice possible is given out, within the limits set by the company. I can't always give the advice I wish I could but I can give information. It's better than "you got a filter, mate?" "yeah" "OK, you can have those 20 neon tetras for your 1 week old 10 gallon"

*face palm*