Disapointing Plant Growth

[srpg1970]

Hi, I've just joined this forum, hoping to learn more about everything to do with aquariums, sorry if this a bit long but I wanted to include everything I could think of;
 
I had to move my aquarium in October of last year and took the opportunity to replace substrate, tubes etc and since then have been having problems with poor plant growth; many of my long lived plants faded awayand died and new ones were struggling to grow. I wondered if at least some of this was shock due to the move.
 
In December I replaced the 2 front tubes with Plant Pro T5 lamps and added a co2 system, this seemed to help but growth is still not great, although nothing has died in the last 2 months.
 
I am hoping some of you can offer some advice on how to improve the situation.

My set up is as follows;

• 60 gallon (225L) bow fronted aquarium, with a 19" (48cm) water column
• Plants - a wide variety including; Amazon swords, various types of vallis, cabomba, Alternanthera reineckii lilacina, Alternanthera cardinalis, Anacharis, java ferns
• Fish - 8 Angels, 2 shoals of about 20 Tetras each; cardinals and black neons, 2 plecs, 4 clowns, 4 shrimp, 2 Siamese Flying Fox
• 4 Light Tubes which are on for 11 hours a day

- Arcadia T5 Plant Pro Lamp - 39W 34" (86cm) + Arcadia Fluorescent Reflector
- Arcadia T5 Plant Pro Lamp - 39W 34" (86cm) + Arcadia Fluorescent Reflector
- Power Glow T8 - 18W 18" (45cm) + Arcadia Fluorescent Reflector
- Power Glow T8 - 14W 15" (38cm) + Arcadia Fluorescent Reflector

• Substrate is as follows:

                        Bottom layer - 1" (2.5cm) of silver sand with heater wire embedded
                        Middle Layer - 2" (5cm) of Tetra Plant Complete Substrate
                        Top Layer - 3" (7.5cm) of Caribsea Eco-Complete Live Planted Substrate

• A high pressure co2 system with 2 bar Pressure Regulator, plus a bubble counter, Neutro Drop Checker plus Neutro Bromo Blue indicator, (which is showing green)  and an in line diffuser on the output from the external filter. I've been setting co2 to come on 1hr before the lights turn on and off 1hr before the lights go off.
• An external Rena Filter 4XP (4 media cages 2 mechanical & 2 biological)
• An additional internal interpet filter with 2 biological foam pads
• I change 20% of the water every 2 weeks and add 30ml API Stress Coat, 30ml API Stress Zyme, 30ml API Leaf Zone- 30ml API Stress Coat
• Nitrite/Ammonia - 0 mg/l
• pH - 6.8
• Nitrate - 15mg/l
• GH - 10od
• KH - 3 od
• Temp - 80oC

Any advice would be appreciated and if there is any info I have missed let me know.
 

 

[Lunar Jetman]

You don't mention any plant food. Do you use any? If not this could be the reason along with the lighting times. Your lighting seems to be on a long time so I'd drop it to about 8 hours and try dosing ferts for the plants.

Remember the more light you provide the more ferts and CO2 your plants need.

 

[liamhuckle]

I dont know if i have missed this reading your post but sounds to me you really need to start dosing fertiliser including n and p something like tnc complete and your plants should grow well

 

[Lunar Jetman]

You may end up changing water once a week too when you feed the plants.

 

[techen]

I agree with everyone above, you'll need to add marco ferts in order for the CO2 to work else you'll plants will lack food and die off.
 
Also, Why 8 angels? You sound very overstocked as well.

 

[srpg1970]

Hi Thanks for the swift response, I have been using API Plant zone fertilizer every 2 weeks with water change, I assumed that along with the Tetra Plant Complete Substrate and Caribsea Eco-Complete Live Planted Substrate that would be enough liquid and substrate fertilizer. If you think this might be the problem which would you recommend and why, sorry I'm trying to learn so would like to understand why something is recommended.
 
As far as overstocking the Angels are all young but I've always had the numbers I mention, as long as filters are cleaned (in Tank Water) regularly I never see any problems with the fish or nitrite etc.
 
Thanks again for any advise

 

[Livewire88]

I would bet that if you changed your ferts to TPN+ or simmilar your plants would benifit greatly.
 
Or if you are short on £$£ and live in the UK go on Ebay and search GreenHigh get 100g of that and mix with 1litre of ro or distilled water and away you go, I found the GreenHigh is not as good as TPN+ but it is cheaper, well my plants seem to prefer the TPN+ anyway.
 
You could save a lot of money and order some dry salts from fluidsensoronline and you can mix your own TPN+, this is what I have been doing for a long time now with good success.

 

[srpg1970]

I would bet that if you changed your ferts to TPN+ or simmilar your plants would benifit greatly.
 
Or if you are short on £$£ and live in the UK go on Ebay and search GreenHigh get 100g of that and mix with 1litre of ro or distilled water and away you go, I found the GreenHigh is not as good as TPN+ but it is cheaper, well my plants seem to prefer the TPN+ anyway.
 
You could save a lot of money and order some dry salts from fluidsensoronline and you can mix your own TPN+, this is what I have been doing for a long time now with good success.

Livewire88, thanks for the reply, in fact I'm really impressed with the responsiveness of all the members on this forum, it’s appreciated. Sorry about the font size
 
Should I take it that you don’t rate the API leaf zone then?
 
I have ordered some Tropica Plant Nutrition+ (250ml) to see if that makes a difference; if this is the missing element how long do you think it will take for a noticeable improvement to be apparent?
 
If this seems to make a difference I will look into mixing my own as you suggest.
 
Do you rate the Arcadia T5 Plant Pro Lamps? I had wondered about upgrading the 2 small rear Power Glow 18 & 14W T8s, to 2 Arcadia T5 Plant Pro Lamp - 24W 22" if I can fit them in the tank. But only if it is going to make a difference.
 
I look forward to hearing what anybody has to say

 

[Livewire88]

I would bet that if you changed your ferts to TPN+ or simmilar your plants would benifit greatly.
 
Or if you are short on £$£ and live in the UK go on Ebay and search GreenHigh get 100g of that and mix with 1litre of ro or distilled water and away you go, I found the GreenHigh is not as good as TPN+ but it is cheaper, well my plants seem to prefer the TPN+ anyway.
 
You could save a lot of money and order some dry salts from fluidsensoronline and you can mix your own TPN+, this is what I have been doing for a long time now with good success.

Livewire88, thanks for the reply, in fact I'm really impressed with the responsiveness of all the members on this forum, it’s appreciated. Sorry about the font size
 
Should I take it that you don’t rate the API leaf zone then?
 
I have ordered some Tropica Plant Nutrition+ (250ml) to see if that makes a difference; if this is the missing element how long do you think it will take for a noticeable improvement to be apparent?
 
If this seems to make a difference I will look into mixing my own as you suggest.
 
Do you rate the Arcadia T5 Plant Pro Lamps? I had wondered about upgrading the 2 small rear Power Glow 18 & 14W T8s, to 2 Arcadia T5 Plant Pro Lamp - 24W 22" if I can fit them in the tank. But only if it is going to make a difference.
 
I look forward to hearing what anybody has to say

 
Hello, 
 
I have never used the API leaf zone so cant comment, but I would hazard a guess to say that it does not contain all the nutrients required to run on a High-ish spec set up. If the ferts are the issue I would say you should see an improvement within a week or two. 
 
I used to use 2 x 30w T8 bulbs on my 200L tank and I managed to grow almost every plant I put in the tank apart from carpeting plants but I never saw any pearling, now I have the T5's my plants pearl every single day and I did a little test with some HC and that started to spread, so if I wanted to I could grow some carpeting plants. However I have some lovely Corry's so no carpeting plants for me im afraid. I wouldn't worry about upgrading your T8's just yet in-till you get some good growth because you will more than likely find you don't need to.  I only run 2 x 39W T5's on my tank and I find it plenty. 
 
If you do get on well with the TPN+ I can give you the recipe I use with the dry salts which when mixed together are on par with TPN+ in my experience. 
 
Hope this helps
 
ps; get a journal set up with some pictures so we can all have a gander at your tank. 

 

[srpg1970]

Hi, thanks for the help again, I am now realising the leafzone is not suitable for a co2 setup so I look forward to seeing if the TPN+ makes a significant difference.
 
How did you decide what salts to use to create your own TPN+? And thanks I would be interested in your recipe.
 
Another piece of info I keep coming upon in my reading around the net, is the weekly/daily dosing of fertiliser debate. For the daily system I keep seeing Neutro+ being recommended, especially by Richard at aquaessentials, any thoughts?
 
Also would you advocate weekly water changes vs. 2 weekly? I usually change about 25% every 2 weeks is that ok?
 
I will start a journal soon as well.

 

[Livewire88]

I have always dosed my ferts daily rather than weekly, this way your plants get what they need each day rather than just flooding the water with nutrients once a week.

Also you NEED to be doing 50% water change every week. Reason being is that as you are dosing ferts and injecting Co2 your plants will be growing faster and releasing organic waste which along with unused nutrients will have to be kept in check with the 50% weekly water changes.