Did we get ich for Christmas?

[mrsjoannh13]

Hi, everyone - Merry Christmas.

I have a 20 gallon tank with 6 glofish tetras. 2 of them are long-fin variety. I started noticing some spots on the back fin of just the 2 long-fin ones and can't figure out if it's just variation in the tail tissue or if it's the beginnings of ich. The other 4 (non- long-fin variety) do not show any spots in their fins. The 2 pictured do not have spots on their other fins nor do they have any spots on their body anywhere. I noticed the spots a day or 2 ago and have not seen any spread of more spots but not sure how quickly ich would spread (these are my first fish).

If this ich should I treat initially with heat and salt? Or with the Ich medicine I got from aquarium co-op (Aquairum Solutions Ich X)? Should I treat the entire 20g tank assuming the other fish will be affected? Or move these 2 out into another tank? I have a 3.5g and a 10g I could try to set up quickly as a hospital tank.

The photo attached is the best I could get - hope it is enough to see the spots in question.f

I should mention the greenish yellow one is also acting a little "off". He's going at the other fish - showing some aggression and darting around the tank a bit more than normal. Typically they are pretty chill.

Ammonia and nitrite are 0 as well as chlorine. Nitrates less than 5. pH is 8.2 (I realize this is high and added some peat granules yesterday to start slowly bringing it down a bit). GH 25. KH 120. Temp always 77.5 - 78 F. I do 20% weekly water changes with gravel vac. Feeding 2x daily with a mix of Tetra flakes, krill flakes, bug bites, frozen or freeze dried blood worms and brine shrimp.

Thank you for any help.

 

[Essjay]

It doesn't look quite right for ich, but you can see the actual fish - does it look like salt grains on them?

If it does, heat is the best option. And you have to treat the whole tank not just the fish with spots because there could well be some stage 2 cysts in the tank.
Do a big water change to remove as many of the parasites as possible and refill with water warmer than usual. Turn the heater up to get the water to 86 deg F/30 deg C as measured with a thermometer (not the setting on the heater). Leave the tank at this temperature for at least 2 weeks, or a week after the last spot disappears from the fish, then turn the heater down and let the tank slowly cool.
Only use medication if heat doesn't work.

 

[mrsjoannh13]

It doesn't look quite right for ich, but you can see the actual fish - does it look like salt grains on them?

If it does, heat is the best option. And you have to treat the whole tank not just the fish with spots because there could well be some stage 2 cysts in the tank.
Do a big water change to remove as many of the parasites as possible and refill with water warmer than usual. Turn the heater up to get the water to 86 deg F/30 deg C as measured with a thermometer (not the setting on the heater). Leave the tank at this temperature for at least 2 weeks, or a week after the last spot disappears from the fish, then turn the heater down and let the tank slowly cool.
Only use medication if heat doesn't work.

Hi, @essjay - thanks so much for replying on Christmas.

There is nothing visible on the bodies of any of the fish. There is no sprinkled salt look on the bodies or even the fins. It's just these larger globs of white (for lack of a better explanation) on the rear fins of the 2 that are the long-fin variety. Their bodies look completely clear and normal.

I did a 70% water change yesterday with gravel vac.

I will increase the temp and see if that has any impact before starting meds. I am just a bit worried as the electric green one is flashing - darting around the tank which is unusual and really being a bully to the other fish which is also very out of character. He is also spending more time at the top of the tank. He is not gasping for air or putting his mouth at the surface - just swimming near the top more and I've never seen them do that. They typically hang out mid-tank.

Should I dose salt? Or just increase the temp and see how things go? Also - sorry if this is a dumb question - but what does the increase in temperature do?

THANK YOU!

 

[Essjay]

It is possible the white globs are the result of a bit of fighting - the fish equivalent of scabs. If they are, they should fade rather than just disappear as happens when the ich spot falls off.

You may already know this but just in case:
Ich has 3 stages.
#1 is where the parasite is attached to the fish and feeds of the fish's tissue. Once it has eaten enough, it falls of the fish. It cannot be killed in this stage as the coating protects it.
#2 is where the parasite sits on the bottom of the tank and multiplies with a sort of cyst. Again, it cannot be killed in this stage.
#3 is where the cyst opens and hundreds of 'baby' parasites go looking for a fish to infect. This is the only stage where it can be killed. The coating which covers the parasites in stages #1 and #2 protects it from both heat and medication, but the free swimming stage can be killed. Heat alone is enough to kill it, provided the water temp is 86 deg F. At even 84 deg, it won't kill them.

Edit: I forgot to add that the temp must be kept at 86 deg, or med in the water when every last stage #2 cyst splits. Even if just one is left when the temp is lowered or med stopped, it will reinfect the fish.

 

[mrsjoannh13]

It is possible the white globs are the result of a bit of fighting - the fish equivalent of scabs. If they are, they should fade rather than just disappear as happens when the ich spot falls off.

You may already know this but just in case:
Ich has 3 stages.
#1 is where the parasite is attached to the fish and feeds of the fish's tissue. Once it has eaten enough, it falls of the fish. It cannot be killed in this stage as the coating protects it.
#2 is where the parasite sits on the bottom of the tank and multiplies with a sort of cyst. Again, it cannot be killed in this stage.
#3 is where the cyst opens and hundreds of 'baby' parasites go looking for a fish to infect. This is the only stage where it can be killed. The coating which covers the parasites in stages #1 and #2 protects it from both heat and medication, but the free swimming stage can be killed. Heat alone is enough to kill it, provided the water temp is 86 deg F. At even 84 deg, it won't kill them.

Edit: I forgot to add that the temp must be kept at 86 deg, or med in the water when every last stage #2 cyst splits. Even if just one is left when the temp is lowered or med stopped, it will reinfect the fish.

Okay this is very helpful. Thank you again for all of your advice. I'll post here if I have more questions. Really appreciate it.

 

[mrsjoannh13]

@essjay - sorry one more question... should I add the aquarium salt along with the heat at this time? I'm assuming even if it's not ich the salt will not harm them if dosed correctly for the tank.

 

[Essjay]

Salt doesn't affect ich (it also occurs in salt water tanks), but where the fish's body has been damaged by the parasite burrowing into it, salt can help keep it clean until it heals.

 

[Fish4dawin]

I'm no expert but I think maybe add a bit of heat to the tank and leave it for an hour or so and check on them regularly. If it shows no improvement then the salt would be a good idea.

 

[Essjay]

A bit of heat for an hour or so won't do anyhting for ich - it must be a minimum of 86 deg F/30 deg C or it won't kill the parasite. And it must be at that temp until every last stage #2 cyst has 'hatched'.

 

[mrsjoannh13]

Is there anything else I can do for now to help the green fish? He seems very agitated - going at the other fish when they come near him and darting around the tank. Should I keep the lights in the tank off to help reduce stress? (it's not a planted tank). Any other suggestions to help the green one for now?

 

[JxsPxxle]

The best thing you can probably do is just let it happen, moving it to another tank or moving things around would cause more stress.

 

[Essjay]

How much decor is in the tank? Is there enough to break up line of sight? It sounds as though they have matured enough that the green one has decided he's 'top fish'. Seriously Fish does comment that they squabble within their group.
I know with other species of fish rearranging the decor sometimes helps, you could try that and see what happens.

 

[mrsjoannh13]

How much decor is in the tank? Is there enough to break up line of sight? It sounds as though they have matured enough that the green one has decided he's 'top fish'. Seriously Fish does comment that they squabble within their group.
I know with other species of fish rearranging the decor sometimes helps, you could try that and see what happens.

There is a good bit of artificial plants. Previously they all had their favorite 'spot' and got along peacefully. Photo attached.

The thing that worries me most is how the green one is swimming - when he's not bullying the others. He is darting around even when the other fish aren't near him. And he's going to the top of the tank a good bit - but not breathing at the surface of the water - he's not going that high. I know it might not seem like much to others but I know it is not their characteristic behavior.

 

[Essjay]

I don't really know what to suggest, other than to get some decor that reaches up to the surface. I've not kept skirt/widow tetras in any of their colours or fin shapes, so I don't know from experience what's normal for them

 

[Sgooosh]

There is a good bit of artificial plants. Previously they all had their favorite 'spot' and got along peacefully. Photo attached.

The thing that worries me most is how the green one is swimming - when he's not bullying the others. He is darting around even when the other fish aren't near him. And he's going to the top of the tank a good bit - but not breathing at the surface of the water - he's not going that high. I know it might not seem like much to others but I know it is not their characteristic behavior.

Can you get a better photo I’ve dealt with icy with tetras