Death!

[LeahMay]

Hi
My tank has been running for the best part of 3 years now, my latest additions being 6 penguin tetra, 6 neon tetra and 6 honey gourami. 
These had been quarantined and have been in the main tank for 4 months now.
Completely out of the blue i had a penguin tetra die, scooped out the dead body- no obvious cause of death.
Checked water parameters, 0,0,<5 ammonia,nitrite and nitrate respectively.
Checked all living fish for potential symptoms of illness- NOTHING.
3 days later and another penguin is floating... 
 
WHAT COULD BE THE CAUSE? 
I dont want anymore fishes to die!
 
Thank you in advance

 

[LeahMay]

.... another one bites the dust. 

 

 

[LeahMay]

Right apparently you guys may want some more information!
 
This is the story, 90gal tank. Houses 12 neons, 6 penguins, 6 honey gourami
Lightly planted, mixed pea gravel, 2 ornaments- this has the case since the initial cycle of this tank, approx 3 years ago.
I do PWC of roughly 30/40%  every monday.
 
As for feeding, I feed as much as they can consume in 5mins and remove any excess. This is done at about 4pm. They are not fed on Mondays.
Flake food is fed every other day and the days between is a cucumber slice (outer skin removed) brine shrimp or  bloodworm.
 
So this is how the week has gone;
Monday-30%water change
Tuesday- flake food
Wednesday- cucumber
Thursday- flakes
Friday-blood worm
Saturday- flake food. FIRST DEATH-approx 8pm 
Sunday-Flakes
Monday- SECOND DEATH-approx 10am. 30%water change about 4pm.
Tuesday-Flakes
Wednesday-Cucumber THIRD DEATH-approx 9:30pm
 
There is no obvious sign of death. 
The death today was almost instantaneous, no gasping, odd movements, hiding etc. I was watching them (as you do) I got up to make a cup of tea (again as you do) came back and another penguin lay dead. 
 
Hope this can help you to help me!

 

[TallTree01]

Gees! No reply yet?
I'll fix that. Is there anything new in your tank? Have you been spraaying ANYTHING near the tank? Is there a chance they have just lived out there natural cycle?
The only thing I notice is how much you feed. Cucumber I understand but 5 mins worth of flake food? Perhaps it is a swim bladder issue from all the food. I'm not sure if this will kill them though . What is the total stocking of the tank?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

That's very strange, but without much in the way of symptoms its hard to diagnose.  Anything at all happen out of the ordinary? 
 
 
Scented candles in the room, air fresheners, new perfumes, anything like that? 

 

[LeahMay]

I know!!! 
Nothing new! Literally everything is as i put, nothing new introduced since the tetra.
The stocking i put above but to reiterate: 12 neons, 6 penguins, 6 honey gourami in a 90gal.
Oh terrible wording on my behalf, a pinch of flake food, but enough so that its not all gone in a second flat if you understand me? So more like the amount they can consume in a minute with flakes, hard to be precise with how i do it with words. 
They are roughly 6 months old so i would assume not due to natural death.
 
If it was food related why didn't my neons and angels(moved swiftly into a 6ft tank once bigger than a 50p coin) die 2-3 years ago?  
 


Nothing different, just plain boring old me. Everything in a routine, every week the same!
Just worried about a silent killer on the loose!
 
I cant use anything like that in my house- boyfriend has THE most sensitive nose known to man so bans all smellies.  
Literally out of the blue!

 

[TallTree01]

Ph or temperature swings??? I'm stumped in this one....
The next time one dies, can you take a picture of the corpse so I can see if there is anything out of the ordinary please?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Then that's it, they died of boredom.
 
 
 
Sorry, not much help there.  Its only the penguins dying?  Any loss of color at all or do any of the fish spend a fair amount of time away from the rest of the group?

 

[LeahMay]

Boredom? I refuse to put more than 6 fish in at one go. Got more in QT but now these deaths have got me rather suspicious.
 
At the moment its only penguins dying. If it wipes out the whole tank then i will be seriously annoyed. Literally NOTHING. Thats why i am so confused!  

 

[snazy]

Without knowing what the cause could be, do several water changes for a few days, clean the filters, increase aeration and surface movement.
Sorry, that's all I could come up with. Random deaths can be oxygen related, fish drop like flies with no signs is one of the signs but that's me speculating.
 
And check other parameters like Ph, in case it's fluctuating or shooting down fast which can happen in older tanks when the water becomes too acidic over time.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Boredom?

 
Sorry, it was a small joke (saying that its all been exactly the same.  Bad idea to make a joke. 
 

I refuse to put more than 6 fish in at one go. Got more in QT but now these deaths have got me rather suspicious.
 
At the moment its only penguins dying. If it wipes out the whole tank then i will be seriously annoyed. Literally NOTHING. Thats why i am so confused!

 
I agree with snazy's suggestions, but I doubt that its pH related as your nitrate is so low.  A few extra large water changes probably won't hurt anything though.  Do you have any natural plants in the tank, that these fish could be eating that might be poisonous?   Grasping at straws really, but I recall some one had a fish in the tank that died (but wasn't found) that actually had toxins and some fish tried to feed on it and died from the poison.  Just a thought...

 

[TallTree01]

I've heard that neon tetra disease affects penguins as well as neons. But then I guess the neons aren't dying so...

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Hmm, not a lot to go on really, so its questions rather than suggestions from me...
 
What are you using to test the water, strips or liquid test kits?
If liquid test kits, are you giving the bottles a REALLY REALLY good shake/bang for ~1 minute, especially the nitrate?
Have you tried getting water test samples from different parts of the tank?
 
Are these young, sub-adult fish?
They get one feed per day, except Mondays?
Are you confident everyone is getting some food (at least the size of one eye) every feed, or are any fish hogging the added food?
 
No signs of fish flicking against objects?
No sign of fish hanging right at the surface?
Any fish showing unusual colouring?
Any fish doing odd things?

 

[LeahMay]

First of all, thanks! 2nd of all i am going to try answer as much as possible so this may be long...
 
 
 

Ph or temperature swings??? I'm stumped in this one....

The next time one dies, can you take a picture of the corpse so I can see if there is anything out of the ordinary please?

 -No temperature swings as far as i am aware (got a stick on thermometer) and every time i feed/they die(

) i have checked and not spotted any fluctuations. I work in a chemistry lab so pH is tested weekly and that has remained the same as always. I will be sure to take a picture of the next casualty.
 
 

Without knowing what the cause could be, do several water changes for a few days, clean the filters, increase aeration and surface movement.
Sorry, that's all I could come up with. Random deaths can be oxygen related, fish drop like flies with no signs is one of the signs but that's me speculating.
 
And check other parameters like Ph, in case it's fluctuating or shooting down fast which can happen in older tanks when the water becomes too acidic over time.

-Water changes are now gonna be done of about 20-30% think they should be bigger?  That has reminded me, i changed the airstone about 5weeks back... could this have anything to do with it? Though seems like a large time span to be killing.
 
 

I agree with snazy's suggestions, but I doubt that its pH related as your nitrate is so low.  A few extra large water changes probably won't hurt anything though.  Do you have any natural plants in the tank, that these fish could be eating that might be poisonous?   Grasping at straws really, but I recall some one had a fish in the tank that died (but wasn't found) that actually had toxins and some fish tried to feed on it and died from the poison.  Just a thought...

 
Main plants are amazon sword i believe and some other bunched plants from the LFS. Had them since we first got the tank
 
 
 
 
 

I've heard that neon tetra disease affects penguins as well as neons. But then I guess the neons aren't dying so...

-That was my initial thought but no neons have died!
 
 

Hmm, not a lot to go on really, so its questions rather than suggestions from me...
 
What are you using to test the water, strips or liquid test kits?
If liquid test kits, are you giving the bottles a REALLY REALLY good shake/bang for ~1 minute, especially the nitrate?
Have you tried getting water test samples from different parts of the tank?
 
Are these young, sub-adult fish?
They get one feed per day, except Mondays?
Are you confident everyone is getting some food (at least the size of one eye) every feed, or are any fish hogging the added food?
 
No signs of fish flicking against objects?
No sign of fish hanging right at the surface?
Any fish showing unusual colouring?
Any fish doing odd things?

 
 
 
Questions are fine!!! 
Liquid tests and i do give them a good shake (i work in chemistry so i know the ropes here)
Yeah, they are consistent through out. 
I believe so!
Yup thats the routine! I near enough hand feed them as one of my gourami decided she doesnt like to join the mad rush for food. So all fish get food! 
 
No, no, no and no again!!!
 
 
Sorry this is so long, tried  to get everyones answers in!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

every time i feed/they die(

)

 
Certainly, correlation does not necessitate causation, but what about stopping the flake food for a while, and going with a different food?