Dark Knight Rams!!!

[Avel1896]

The seller did not state explicitly, but it's my understanding that they are 4-5 months old. I am curious though - I may reach out!

About 2 cm long ?
Any sign of quarrel between (supposed) males ?

 

[kribensis12]

They are about 1-1.2 inches long, so roughly 2.5-3 cm.

I have seem a few that I suspect are males, but I think they are 1-2 months away from the gender to be readily apparent. The Dark Knight males and females are completely pitch black - meaning that the female will not have a red belly. The only way to sex them is by their fins and body length.

 

[Avel1896]

The only way to sex them is by their fins and body length.

That bodes well
I have an interesting method to help sexing this kinf of fishes..................................................

 

[kribensis12]

That bodes well
I have an interesting method to help sexing this kinf of fishes..................................................

I mean you can wait for them to pair off as well. What method do you use?

 

[Avel1896]

A mirror.
Every single territorial fish cannot help defying what it considers a possible rival.
If you get a "mirror respons" you are the happy owner of a male

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

A mirror.
Every single territorial fish cannot help defying what it considers a possible rival.
If you get a "mirror respons" you are the happy owner of a male

Is it a definite fact that females would never interact with each other in that manner?

 

[Avel1896]

"definite" I dunno. What I know is that if female reacts it will be paler and she won't get colored except for a lateral dark line.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

"definite" I dunno. What I know is that if female reacts it will be paler and she won't get colored except for a lateral dark line.

Dang! I'd hoped you'd come across a truly foolproof method.
The problem with 'paler', for example, is that it's all relative...even if you have a definite male to compare with.
I'm also thinking that observing the fish as they see their reflections in the tank sides might be helpful.

 

[Avel1896]

Dang! I'd hoped you'd come across a truly foolproof method.

Oh it works well
Someone here used my method to sex his/her Trichogaster chuna and you know what ? He/she succeeded

even if you have a definite male to compare with.

It works also with photo or drawing of same species fish.

I'm also thinking that observing the fish as they see their reflections in the tank sides might be helpful.

Maybe helpful but less effective.

 

[kribensis12]

Interesting method, I wonder if it applies with Bolivian Rams which are nortoriously hard to sex.

I do know that at least one of the golds is a male because he is already exhibiting an exceptional orange color on the dorsal fin. I know that one of the black rams is also a male as the front of his dorsal fin is beginning to spike.

 

[Avel1896]

if it applies with Bolivian Rams which are nortoriously hard to sex.

As I said it applies with every single territorial fish

 

[kribensis12]

Update! They are doing VERY well and also growing quickly!

I've got some females (both types) which are egging up due to their high protein diet!

In this video you'll even see one of the golds has a descending breeding tube. It's already going back, so I don't believe that any eggs were laid nor has she seemed to find a male she enjoys being around.

 

[kribensis12]

My are they growing quickly!

I believe that one set of Dark Knights have paired off, along with one pair of Golds. They are growing very quickly and maturing well.

I'm intending to leave them all together a bit longer to see how they do - I wanted to ensure that these pairs are "legit". The Dark Knight pair have been vigorously defending a piece of drift wood - it's very interesting to see how protective they are over their territory. The Golds pair have been defending a small corner of the tank - there are so many rams though that they can't really bother any one fish too much.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

My are they growing quickly!

I believe that one set of Dark Knights have paired off, along with one pair of Golds. They are growing very quickly and maturing well.

I'm intending to leave them all together a bit longer to see how they do - I wanted to ensure that these pairs are "legit". The Dark Knight pair have been vigorously defending a piece of drift wood - it's very interesting to see how protective they are over their territory. The Golds pair have been defending a small corner of the tank - there are so many rams though that they can't really bother any one fish too much.

Beautiful fish! Nice to see how they're colouring up as I read through the thread!

I only know a little about rams, although I do plan to have some rams and apistos at some point in the near future.

My concern with your tanks right now though is size/overcrowding I'm afraid... Not having a go at you, just asking what your plan is, and concerned that these delicate fish won't handle extra stress too well.

A 15g tall has a very small footprint, and two out of four corners are now taken by four fish. I'd be concerned that the pairs are going to be stressed out, when they're having to constantly defend against so many other fish always in their territory. The unpaired fish might become stressed from being chased all the time and not having anywhere else to go!

You said you were planning to keep one or two pairs yourself, but where do you plan to put them? From what I've read, a 15g tall isn't enough footprint space for one pair, let alone two. Your other tanks listed in your profile are also small, but with fish that will need much more space once they're larger. Are you planning to upgrade tank sizes?

 

[itiwhetu]

I'm not trying to be that guy, but here is a screen shot of the 4 images. The last image is literally an image of the whole tank.



I am very confident that the first, sudden death, was likely due to genetics. As you (and the video mentions), they are very inbred and thereby very delicate. I am also very confident that the second death was due to internal parasites.

My hope is that the new breeder I selected will have a better quality Ram; additionally if I am able to successfully breed them, to get some fresh blood into their line. View attachment 140486

I think your tank is a little to bright for these guys, it needs to be softer