Cycling with Fish :(

[Snowbrumby]

Hi Again,

I was all set up to do a Fishless Cycle, got the ammonia from the Supermarket, had the tank filled and running fishless for a well over a week and was just waiting until April when I am going to town to get a Test Kit so I could start the cycling. Had read all the pinned articles on fishless cycling, asked a few questions, etc
Well, the other day my darling Hubby presented me with another surprise, 6 Danios for my tank I have been doing daily water changes - actually each time one of them looks unhappy eg whenever the smallest one has her/his fin down (twice today, so two water changes today) I do a 25% water change - I have no other way of working out if the levels are too high as I can't get the test kit for at least another week. Any idea how long I will be doing the daily water changes for? It hasn't rained for a while and water is a bit rare here at the moment but I am determined that these fish will not die this time!
Thank you

 

[Torrean]

just a thought. you aren't still adding ammonia are you because I THINK the danios will do that for you

Edit: not trying to insult your intelligence

 

[nc_nutcase]

what size tank is it? 6 danios don't have that much of a bioload. You may be killing yourself with waterchanges for nothing. There may also be a point where the constant changing of water puts stress on your fish. Although I'm sure by now you have it pretty systematically figured out. But again... danios are pretty hardy fish...

 

[Torrean]

danios are pretty hardy fish...

that's a little debateable. I had five zebra's in a 29 that I am currently cycling (on account of my own stupidity) ALl of them died within a week and my parameters stayed pretty spot on. On the other hand I also have five gold danios(ANOTHER EDIT which came out of a different tank at the store) and all of them are doing fine. (EDIT) (the zebra's probably died from disease so don't stress out about it snowbrumby)

BTW I probably have a much heavier BIOload than you (Unless you have like a 5 gal or something) I have only done 1 water change in the past week and my ammonia hasn't gotten above 1. I'm doing another tommorrow just in case though, you can never be too carefull.

EDIT: then again i have an ammonia test kit so I could monitor my levels more carefully. In other words don't listen to me you probably know more about this stuff than I do if you know enough to do a fishless cycle

 

[Snowbrumby]

Thank you for the replies I hadn't started to use the ammonia as I was waiting until I got a test kit so I could keep an eye on the levels Just letting the live plants do there thing - letting leaves off, rotting, etc
It is a 36g tank, sorry, I forgot to mention that earlier.
As for stress, the Danios seem to love it - they 'watch' and see me getting the buckets and stuff ready and as soon as I put the gravel washer thing in they all play around it and chase any little bits and pieces that go up the tube, they seem to think it is a great game Is this normal? I've never had Danios before but they seem like such happy, energetic little fish
It's just that when the littlest Danio has the top fin and tail clamped, I have been changing the water and she/he seem happy again with all the fins up. Will the tank end up not cycling because I am changing the water so often? I'm basically letting the fish tell me when the water needs a change, is that not right??
Thank you

 

[Snowbrumby]

Yes, I have a system worked out now, just not sure how long I am going to have the water available to keep it going

 

[Shnookina]

I started to cycle my tank with fish food cause i couldn't get ammonia, a week later i got 5 platy, 5 neons (because my partner wanted these) and a plecostomus. They have been in sinse friday and 1 platy died from dropsy last night, they all seem to be ok the others, but i'm yet to test the water because i'm waiting for my test kits to arrive.

 

[loafybones]

I started to cycle my tank with fish food cause i couldn't get ammonia, a week later i got 5 platy, 5 neons (because my partner wanted these) and a plecostomus. They have been in sinse friday and 1 platy died from dropsy last night, they all seem to be ok the others, but i'm yet to test the water because i'm waiting for my test kits to arrive.

Be careful putting that many fish in at once. I put in too many fish in at once when I first started and a load of them died because it caused an amonia spike.

BTW I totally agree with Danios being really cool fish, and they are really hardy which is why so many people use them for cycling.

 

[Snowbrumby]

I wish it would rain, NOW!! We sooooo need the water - just for my fish, forget the kids

 

[sinistral]

Thank you for the replies I hadn't started to use the ammonia as I was waiting until I got a test kit so I could keep an eye on the levels Just letting the live plants do there thing - letting leaves off, rotting, etc

Does this mean your 36g is planted? If so, how heavily planted is it?

I inquire because plants can help a cycle along. Plants utilise nitrAtes and ammonia, and can keep these levels lower than might be expected during the cycling process. Also, if bought directly from a store where they are kept with fish, they can often be colonized with the bacteria that you are trying to cultivate while cycling. Of course, without a source of ammonia these bacteria would rapidly die...

Otherwise, it would be difficult to gauge how the cycle is going without the help of a test kit. Frequent water changes may slow the rate of cycling, but on the other hand, it is important to protect the fish too. I would rather err on the side of the fish's health. One other nuance is that ammonia levels which are too high can also impede cycling IIRC-- all-in-all, I don't think daily 10 or 20% water changes would be harmful.

Also, I would agree that in most cases, frequent water changes do not adversely affect fish-- particularly danios, which are hardy, energetic and playful.

Sounds like you are doing a great job under less-than-ideal circumstances.

 

[Snowbrumby]

Thank you for the reply sinistral. The plants weren't in with any other fish - I had waited until the store got in some new stock as I didn't like the look of the ones they had there already - although one plant did come from their outside pond - longish story
Yes, it is 'planted' though don't know how long the plants will last It is medium to maybe heavyish planted - don't really know what the definitions are sorry. Just prefer the look of real plants so got some. They had been in there a week before the fish arrived, this will help?
So basically, keep doing daily water changes until fish look happy or we run out of water Oh I wish it would rain again

 

[sinistral]

I found a definition of "heavily planted" at one time on the web (probably on Chuck Gadd's aquarium site), but I have since misplaced it.

Having plants in will be helpful. What kind of plants are they, out of curiosity? Because of the time you introduced the plants and fish, they would be more helpful at this point in terms of keeping ammonia and nitrates down as opposed to seeding the tank with helpful bacteria.

Real plants certainly are quite lovely.

Keeping up with the water changes will be helpful. Looking at it another way-- if you had a flow-through system in which 100% of the water was changed every day, you would never need a filter or bacteria, because your fish would always be enjoying the freshest water possible. Of course, this isn't exactly what you are doing, but even if the cycling process is slower, your fish will be better off with fresher water.

When can you get a test kit?

EDIT: Here's the link to Chuck Gadd's aquarium site. There are a lot of interesting articles, but this is one on cycling an aquarium with plants. It doesn't describe your situation exactly, but it may be of interest anyways. There is one error, which is that Gadd states that plants utilise nitrites-- all my research on the web indicates they do not.

 

[Snowbrumby]

I don't know exactly what plants they are - one (6 branches) are Elondea I think it was and then several others which cost twice as much - not much help sorry two of the plant types are pink/purple and green
Another one might be a pennywort type of thing as its impossible to keep it in the gravel!
Looks like I won't be able to get a test kit now until the second week of April at the earliest - just keep letting the fish call the shots until then??
I shall go and check out that link now, thank you - got a feeling I have been there before but can't remember so will have a look

 

[sinistral]

I've never had any luck with elodea (also called egeria densa, or anacharis) as in warmer water it tends to melt (at least it did in my tank ). Other people have had luck with it melting and then growing back in a spindlier form. Was the pink/purple plant a purple waffle (credit Auratus for this info)? If it is, that's more of a terrarium plant I believe and doesn't do well fully immersed.

I wouldn't do anything differently now in terms of either plants or fish. Without a test kit it won't be possible to tell exactly what your levels are or when your cycle comes to an end (if it does end before you get the kit in April).

EDIT: spelling, factual error.

 

[Susielyd]

Hey there Snowbrumby,
In such a large tank with relatively few fish, & a water shortage - I would really think that you could get away with smaller changes - like 10% every day or maybe 15% every second day. I totally understand that you want the fish to survive, but I am assuming you are on tank water? mmmm, yea, the kids are probably not going to be happy when you stop bathing

When I started my tank (3 days before I found this forum ) I had no idea about cycling. Mine is only 6 gallons & I had 5 fish (3platies & 2 guppies) - I had the tests and did about 15% daily - but you have like TONS more water for the chemicals to be spread over!!!

I wish you the best of luck & if it all gets too much, just move down the coast we have had plenty of rain lately

susan