Cycling Question

[Becca]

Ok, here's the scoop:

I've got a 30 Gallon holding a bunch of small cichlids that are going to need a new home. I know the cycling process will take me about a month to complete, so I want to have my new tank setup, cycled and ready for the little guys to move in by the end of September at the latest.

We've found a good used tank that we're most likely going to purchase tonight and I want to get a good feel for fish vs. fishless cycling. This will be my first time cycling a tank properly (my current tank was setup based on the advice I received from my LFS "You can add fish right away!")

Regarding cycling the new tank, should I do this with or without fish. I thought I saw an article on the boards for Fishless cycling, but I did a search and I can't seem to find it. (Maybe I'm just blind?)

I feel like a dolt for asking, but...could someone post a link to that article, or maybe just some references they have bookmarked, I'd be greatly appreciated. I can't seem to find the article I'm looking for. I thought it was a pinned topic in the Beginnners section, but I might be wrong!

 

[Shizat]

There really isnt a proper way to cycle your tank, you can either add fish to cycle it for you or do the fishless cycling way with ammonia. My advice would to be either to do the fishless cycling way or just to take a couple large handfulls of gravel out of your established tank and put it in the new tank along with a couple of your fish.

 

[tstenback]

FISHLESS, and it should be fairly easy for you as you already have an established tank. Take the new filter and let it run on the established tank for a week or two. While that is going on set up your new tank. After the new filter has been running for the above time move it over to the new tank. You should have little or no cycling activity on the new tank as this filter will be a clone of the exisiting filter which supported the fish you want to move. If you want to be sure before you move the fish over add a teaspoon full of ammonia and check the level in 24 hours if its zero then you know you are OK. then add your fish and monitor your levels for a few days to make sure all is well. HTH

 

[Becca]

Thanks, Terry. That actually does help. My only problem is I want to use my 30 Gallon for an Angel Fish setup after the cichlids are moved over, so I don't want to modify the lid at all.

In order to fit the filters for the 75 gallon my 30-Tall, I'd have to modify the lid of my tank. I thought there was a way of fish-less cycling that would allow me to seed the tank with some of the gravel from the first tank and watch it go through spikes?

I'm completely clueless here, sorry if I sound like a dolt!

 

[luxum]

Here are the links, Becca. I suggest the recipe from the 2nd link, but read both articles to get a feel for the process.

original fishless cycle article

Improved fishless cycle article

 

[Bol]

I thought there was a way of fish-less cycling that would allow me to seed the tank with some of the gravel from the first tank and watch it go through spikes?

There is, and it's not limited to fishless cycling, either, just for info.

Your goal is to get a bacteria bed established in your new tank. The bacteria will grow on just about any surface. That means in your established tank you have that bacteria growing on the surface of the gravel, rocks, decorations, plants, and filter media (see below), any of which can be moved into your new tank to help with cycling (although you may not want to move them all at the same time, or the original tank may 'crash').

If it's impractical to run a new filter on your established tank, you may still be able to use the media. That is, depending on what filtration you use on the new tank, you might be able to just take the filter cartridge from the Penguin, and put it in the new filter. In addition (or if that's not possible), you could put some extra filter media in the established tank now (like some filter sponge, or 'filter floss', or just cheap old 100% polyester batting from a craft store), and then move that extra media into the new tank after five to seven days.

Keep in mind that, no matter what method of cycling you use, if you add bacteria from your established tank to the new tank, you'll want to make sure they have enough food (i.e. ammonia) pretty much immediately.

By the way, although peoples' results can vary greatly, you may be surprised how quickly a tank can cycle with the help of bacteria from established tanks.

 

[Becca]

Sweet guys - thanks for the responses! I'm getting pretty excited about that tank!!! I'll let ya know how it goes.

 

[njnauticalnut]

Becca,

I am currently fishless cycling my 75 gallon. I have followed the directions very closely and it is really neat finally getting nitrite readings and knowing that the tank is cycling. I did not have a lot of seed material so it it taking longer. My advice, now that I finally have nitrites, is don't worry if it takes awhile, it will cycle eventually.

Good luck and enjoy the process!

 

[Becca]

Sorry to bring a dead topic back to life, but I'll be starting my cycling tonight, so I thought this would be a good place to start everything off.

I have a few questions before I begin the process of fishless cycling:

1) Do I *HAVE* to have decorations in the tank while it's cycling? That includes gravel/substrate. I've not decided what I want to do with it, as far as decor goes yet, so if I have to wait on decorations...it'll be a couple of weeks before I can cycle. My thought was since cycling is establishing, more or less, a bateria colony in your filter, then I could tank my time, pick out some nice decorations and do some landscaping. (Note: Again, I don't even have gravel yet...)

2) After reading the articles, I'm still a bit confused about the fishless cycling. It seems like it's almost too simple and I've got to be missing something. So basically, I just add X number of Ammonia drops each day, trying to keep them at about 5PPM, until I get a Nitrite spike. At that point I lay off the ammonia, and just watch as the Nitrites turn into Nitrates, and then the Nitrates disappear? I've gotta be missing something, although it may take a while...it just seems like it's too easy from my part.

3) Seeding my tank. Obviously, I have an established tank already. And, I've heard it's an extremely good idea to seed a new tank with gravel/water/etc from my established tank. My established tank needs a good cleaning tonight, so is it ok to dump the old tank water (approximately 5 gallons) into the new tank for a start, and then fill it the rest of the way? Or is there another way I should seed it? (I thought I saw a recommendation for hanging gravel in a pantyhose in the new tank...)

4) Uhm, there was a 4th point, but it escapes me now. How about we just use this bullet to say TFF RULES!

 

[nero]

Hey becca,
I just finished a fishless cycle, and It seemed that things picked up quite a bit after I added gravel. For all the fancy bio filters you can get, I think there is one heck of a bacterial party happening in the gravel.
Also, a point,(either you didnt realise or you mistyped) the nitrAtes wont dissapear. Your nitrItes will go up, then eventually come down, but your nitrAtes will go up and up and up till you do a water change to get rid of them.

 

[Phantom Thief]

Unless you have a lot of plants, or a real fast-growing one.

P.T.

 

[daisycat]

We recently fishless cycled a 105g with seeding material from a 30g to start it off. It took 10 days. In my sig is a link to a detailed page of what we did each day and what the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings were - it might just help to see it laid out step by step.

hth

 

[Becca]

Hey becca,
I just finished a fishless cycle, and It seemed that things picked up quite a bit after I added gravel. For all the fancy bio filters you can get, I think there is one heck of a bacterial party happening in the gravel.
Also, a point,(either you didnt realise or you mistyped) the nitrAtes wont dissapear. Your nitrItes will go up, then eventually come down, but your nitrAtes will go up and up and up till you do a water change to get rid of them.

Actually, that was something I misunderstood. So, if I understand what I should be doing correctly...it's this:

1) Setup the tank (with gravel, decorations are not needed at this stage).
2) Add water (5 gallons from my 30-Gallon tank, 70, dechlorinated - obviously - from the tap)
3) Grab a couple of handfuls of gravel from 30-Gallon, place in Knee-High stockings and hang inside the tank.
4) Start filter and wait till the next day.

Starting on the next day, I should monitor water levels and begin adding Ammonia until I see a NitrIte spike. Once the Nitrite levels are 0 and I have my Nitrate spikes, I do a 50% water change, make sure all levels are 0, then add my fish?

If I understand cycling...basically what I'm doing is getting rid of all the spikes so my healthy fish will not have to endure the stress of dealing with them, correct?

So, by that logic, once a cycle has been completed, then you have an effective process of ammonia breaking down into Nitrites, Nitrites breaking down in to Nitrates, and unless you have plants, removing the Nitrates via a water change.

I'm sorry to be a pest. But even with all the fish I have in my 30-Gallon, I've never done a cycle before. *Shrug* This is the first tank I've purchased since I've learned how to keep fish *correctly*.

 

[tstenback]

sounds like a great plan. the only thing i can add is if you can get some filter material from your exisiting tank and put it in your new filter it will help a ton. You dont need a huge amount, just some sponge or other type of media but make sure you put it right in the new filter. Good Luck and have fun with it Becca.

 

[luxum]

1)  Do I *HAVE* to have decorations in the tank while it's cycling?  That includes gravel/substrate.  I've not decided what I want to do with it, as far as decor goes yet, so if I have to wait on decorations...it'll be a couple of weeks before I can cycle.  My thought was since cycling is establishing, more or less, a bateria colony in your filter, then I could tank my time, pick out some nice decorations and do some landscaping.  (Note:  Again, I don't even have gravel yet...)

You don't ~have~ to have gravel, but it would provide more surface area for bacterial colonization. I recommend you cycle with gravel but it isn't a requirement.

2)  After reading the articles, I'm still a bit confused about the fishless cycling.  It seems like it's almost too simple and I've got to be missing something.  So basically, I just add X number of Ammonia drops each day, trying to keep them at about 5PPM, until I get a Nitrite spike.  At that point I lay off the ammonia, and just watch as the Nitrites turn into Nitrates, and then the Nitrates disappear?  I've gotta be missing something, although it may take a while...it just seems like it's too easy from my part.

Most of the time people that have problems fishless cycling are trying to make it too complicated. The first day, turn up the heat to about 86º, add enough ammonia to take your levels to 5ppm, it will probably be a lot more than a few drops if you are using household ammonia. In my 20 gallon tank i think it was 1-1/4 teaspoons to reach 5ppm. Write down the amount and then add that amount every day until you see the nitrites spike. Once the nitrites are high, cut the ammonia dose in half but continue to add it every day. Somewhere around here the ammonia levels in the tank will drop to zero. The nitrites will be sky high for what seems like forever, and then one day they will be at or near zero too. After an ammonia dose is completely converted within 12 to 24 hours, the tank is cycled. Do water changes to get your nitrates to something reasonable (i shoot for about 10ppm, but its safe up to about 40ppm for hardy species) and then get your fish, up to a full load, but nothing super sensitive like otos. If for some reason you can't get fish right away, keep dosing the tank with the half dose until you can, and check the nitrates before you add fish. You may want to add a little fish food a couple times during the cycle to make sure you have some of the bacteria that convert organic waste to ammonia.

3)  Seeding my tank.  Obviously, I have an established tank already.  And, I've heard it's an extremely good idea to seed a new tank with gravel/water/etc from my established tank.  My established tank needs a good cleaning tonight, so is it ok to dump the old tank water (approximately 5 gallons) into the new tank for a start, and then fill it the rest of the way?  Or is there another way I should seed it?  (I thought I saw a recommendation for hanging gravel in a pantyhose in the new tank...)

Adding tank water won't do much good. The bacteria you want live on surfaces, they aren't free floating in the water. Using gravel in pantyhose, or borrowing established ornaments works much better. Or, as Tstenback noted, nothing beats putting some established media into your filter. Get as much seed material as possible to speed up the cycle.