Cycling: it all seems wrong?

[bogusmove]

I'm new to aquarium keeping, i'm 2 weeks into cycling my aquarium, and I am quite confused now. Nothing is as it seems it should be, and i'm hoping some veterans might be able to tell me if I can just relax, or if my concern is justified!

I have a 380 litre tank, which I filled with cleaned gravel and rocks, and tap water to which I added "stess coat" to dechlorinate it, "stress zyme" to help establish bacteria (both free with the tank I bought) and some fish flakes. I left the tank for a week now, except to measure amonia, nitrite and nitrate.

I first tested the water 2 or 3 days after filling it and found no amonia, about 0.2 mg/l nitrite and 8 mg/l nitrate. For the rest of the week the readings did not change (I tested daily). It's not following the text book amonia spike, nitrite spike and nitrate cycle, but I assumed at this point that the "stess zyme" had altered the behaviour...

After a week I bought plants. The shop said this was fine. A few days later though there are clusters of bubbles on the surface around the edges. My research suggests this indicates bacteria in the water. There is an oil slick too, my research suggests this means bad water quality. I assumed this is normal for cycling, although i'm getting worried because i've not heard of anyone else describing such symptoms. Some of my plants are also growing roots from parts of their body. I'm puzzled.

2 weeks after filling (now) the bubbles and oil slick are still there and the plants are growing lots of very long roots, hanging down from the plants towards the gravel. Are they seeking nutrition? Doesn't seem like a good sign to me. They are also looking quite unwell in some respects. Difficult to describe though. Some red leaved plants have green and brown rashs on and the strem looks fluffy...

Very worried now.

Can anyone comment on what is going on here?

Thanks!

 

[sarge]

Hi

Nice size for a first tank mine was 96ltr, but got a bigger one now.

Scum on the water surface suggests to me that the tank was not clean when you filled it. Could be the silicates comming out of the seals. A couple of water changes should clear that up.

As for the plants - not too sure. My main tank is marine, but the 96ltr is tropical and my plants have grown shoots/roots from almost every joint. So could just be the type of plant.

If you can find the names of the plants you have problems with and post on here. I'm sure someone will be able to give you more advice. Try to get some pics as well.

A couple more things
- what lighting are you using and what is the lighting period?
- are you adding O2/CO2/air to the tank via any means?

Can anybody else suggest ways to help - other info etc.



Ian

 

[royboy]

Hi Bogus.
Glad to hear someone else is confused! its great ain't it? this has got to be the most controversial hobby ever.
I also am a newbie, just started my tank, (apparently done every thing wrong)
I just do a 2 gallon water change every other day, the fish love it, its no hassle to me, and every thing (SO FAR) in the Garden is rosey. (as they say).
royboy

 

[QHowes]

Hello Bogusmove...Here is what I would do if i were you...do you know anyone who has a fish tank established? The reason i ask you this is because that "Bacteria grower" that comes with your tank is useless. Sort of a scheme to make money. What you need is established bacteria from another tank. I suggest using someones gravel. To put their gravel in your tank you must keep the gravel moist so the bacteria doesnt die...also dont wash the gravel. I would put the gravel in a ziplock bag with some of the tank water it came from. If you put this in your tank you should have your cycled tank in a few days. Make sure you dont put any fish in the tank until you are certain it is cycled.

Another tip is your water...adding water to you fishtank is always good (example: water changes) but make sure the water is chlorine free befire adding it to your tank...otherwise it kills bacteria that is keeping your tank running smoothly.

Try this and let us know how it worked out for you

 

[Rose]

Hi ya. I have some reasureing things to tell you. First off are you trying to fishless cycle the tank if you are you need to use some ammonia (I'm not the one to ask about fishless cycleing). If you aren't you need some fish to put in your tank to get the cycle going. Just by having plants and water in a tank isn't going to cycle the tank. Here are some links to help you out. All of them are writen by some very good friends of mine who have been doing this hoby for more years than I can count. The info in the articles are very well written and informitive. OTher than not seeing how your getting ammonia in the tank your doing good. The lvls that you are seeing my be from your tap water (I'm pretty sure they are if you don't have fish in the tank). The plants themselves need a tank with fish and or some other way of getting the nutrients they need. Adding plants to a tank that is cycling is a good way to help the cycle along. I hope these articles help you understand your new hoby and look forward to seeing you around. If you have any more questions just holler.
Rose

Cycling safely with fish
Cycling safely Fishless
Maintaning water quality and stability
Algae control
quarentien and hospital tanks
Fish selection and aclamation

 

[bogusmove]

Scum on the water surface suggests to me that the tank was not clean when you filled it. Could be the silicates comming out of the seals. A couple of water changes should clear that up.

If you can find the names of the plants you have problems with and post on here. I'm sure someone will be able to give you more advice. Try to get some pics as well.

A couple more things
- what lighting are you using and what is the lighting period?
- are you adding O2/CO2/air to the tank via any means?

Can anybody else suggest ways to help - other info etc.

Ian

Hi Ian, and everyone else, thanks for the help.

Re: tank, it didn't look so big in the store!! Hehe!

Regarding plant names, I looked through all the images on tropica.com, and I think I have Cabomba caroliniana or Cabomba furcáta (called otherplant in the links below and Egeria densa (greenplant in links below), the others I can't ID.

I have 4 tubes about 1m long (so quite alot of light I guess). Don't know the tube type exactly, although I think there are 2 of one sort and 2 of another (you can see a slightly different coloured light). Tubes are on timers so there is 12 hours of light a day. No direct sunlight or anything. No CO2/O2/air additions and no air stone. My research tells me that air stones are just decorative.

I have an external filter (Rena filstar xP3) which is returned to tank by nozzle about 1cm below surface, providing good circulation throughout the tank.

One more thing, I think maybe the brown rashs I described on the plants could be brown algae as i've just noticed similar coloured spots on some slate in the tank.

Ok, here are the pics... first the bubbles that never pop:
http/www.bogusmove.com/u/mjw/aquarium/cy...le/bubbles1.jpg

The "otherplant" (Cabomba?) with roots hanging:
http/www.bogusmove.com/u/mjw/aquarium/cy...otherplant1.jpg
http/www.bogusmove.com/u/mjw/aquarium/cy...otherplant2.jpg

The "greenplant" (Egeria densa?) has roots too:
http/www.bogusmove.com/u/mjw/aquarium/cy...greenplant1.jpg

It seems a bit odd for a plant to suddenly start sprouting roots everywhere the moment I put it in my tank... after all it must have lived a while before now without doing it, and it really is sprouting alot!!!

The "redplant":
http/www.bogusmove.com/u/mjw/aquarium/cy...e/redplant1.jpg
Stem was light red before, now it's pale and fluffy:
http/www.bogusmove.com/u/mjw/aquarium/cy...e/redplant2.jpg
Strange damage to leaves has appeared:
http/www.bogusmove.com/u/mjw/aquarium/cy...e/redplant3.jpg

Is this the infamous brown algae on the stone:
http/www.bogusmove.com/u/mjw/aquarium/cy...pottedstone.jpg

The fact that so many plants are apparently suffering makes me think something must have gone very wrong.

There are of course no fish in the tank yet.

I could change some water, as Qhowes suggested, but I wasn't sure if that would be helpful during cycling... I don't know anyone else who has a tank unfortunately, at least that I know of... maybe i'll email round at work on Monday.... but really and truely, if all this is is cycling pain, I can wait, but none of this is what I expected, hence my post.

 

[bogusmove]

Hi ya. I have some reasureing things to tell you. First off are you trying to fishless cycle the tank if you are you need to use some ammonia (I'm not the one to ask about fishless cycleing). If you aren't you need some fish to put in your tank to get the cycle going. Just by having plants and water in a tank isn't going to cycle the tank. Here are some links to help you out. All of them are writen by some very good friends of mine who have been doing this hoby for more years than I can count. The info in the articles are very well written and informitive. OTher than not seeing how your getting ammonia in the tank your doing good. The lvls that you are seeing my be from your tap water (I'm pretty sure they are if you don't have fish in the tank). The plants themselves need a tank with fish and or some other way of getting the nutrients they need. Adding plants to a tank that is cycling is a good way to help the cycle along. I hope these articles help you understand your new hoby and look forward to seeing you around. If you have any more questions just holler.
Rose

Cycling safely with fish
Cycling safely Fishless
Maintaning water quality and stability
Algae control
quarentien and hospital tanks
Fish selection and aclamation

Hi Rose, thanks for the reassurances... I will certainly read all the links you quote. I put fish flake into the tank, as I understood these will break down and give rise to amonia...

I did wonder if the levels I was reading were from my tap water earlier in the week, I just can't understand how they could be so static. So, I tested tap water The tests showed no nitrate and almost no nitrite... so the level I acquired came from somewhere...

Thanks again, and i'll read the links...

 

[jonall]

Hi Bogus Move,

I recently cycled my first tank a couple of months ago, I found i had a lot of the problems you had, Given hindsight i now know that i did not cycle correctly. Im not sure i could even cycle a new tank now it was so confusing.

I too got plants after a week of getting the tank, they grew shoots/roots which went downwards to the gravel, one of them looks the same as the one you called The "greenplant" (Egeria densa?). At first all my plants looked a complete tangled mess and this did not rectify itself until some weeks later when i got some mollies after i decided the cycle had ended and the tank was running pretty well with no more losses of my fish.

I thought my tank had cycled too using your method of just regularly adding cycle chemicals to the tank (No Fish) and waiting and monitoring the water, When i thought things looked good i went to add fish, I added 6 tiger barbs (may have been too many looking back) i unfortunately lost 4 very quickly. I think this is when my tank actually cycled. Im happy that the other 2 survived and are now thriving.

The brown algae you have i had too in the early stages , I first took the badly covered rocks and cleaned as much algae off by hand and wiped the inside glass, then i got a few algae eaters (2 clown loaches) and later a bristlenose plec when i realised the loaches soon found the flakes i was feeding the barbs better tasting than algae. Within a week of the plec going in i saw no sign of the brown algae again although i do still have speckled green on the inside of the glass which i clean off when it gets bad. I then started adding more fish and got a couple of mollies who soon trimmed and cleaned up the plants. Some of my plants still look a little brown in places but are still always growing and the brown dead bits do fall off. But as long as nw shoots are growing im not concered

I am now reasonable happy that the tank is in quite good shape regular checks always show all the water tests as being normal. my only problems now is my plants are outgrowing the height of the tank, i have on a few occasions had to trim the plants and replant the trimmings, I now have quite a few really nice clumps of plants where i had only 2 or 3 shoots before. One thing i do still worry about is i still have a very dusty looking tank, I did notice while doing a water change today that it could be my tap water that has a dusty look as i noticed the water i had just filled my bucket with was as bad as the water i had just removed from the tank, So now im going to try bottled water for a while.

did not mean to type so much but i hope some of this aleviates your fears a little that its not just you

PS i did a couple of little water changes during my initial cycle as i had oil slick on my water too but never had any bubbles.

 

[bogusmove]

Thanks jonall, it certainly sounds like your experience has alto in common with mine... Maybe adding plants last week wasn't such a great idea... I hope some of them survive without getting too badly damaged!

The articles Rosy posted are very good. I think the second link was mistaken though, I suspect http/www.aquamaniacs.net/cyclingsafelyfishless.html is the correct link (Rosy to confirm).

I'm beginning to feel that while maybe not text book, my experience isn't indicative of a total disaster!!

I think I will change some water. I am now lead to believe this won't affect cycling as long as I dechlorinate properly and don't disturb substrate.

 

[Sye]

The "greenplant" (Egeria densa?)

I have that plant too, when I first got it mine did that but then bits break off in the current...they dont die they just get caught in other plants and carry on growing..strange things!!!!

I quite please now because I know what kind of plant it is....just need to find out what the other 5 plants are.....

 

[Rose]

You are correct on that link i posted. I'm sorry I should have double checked.

As for that first pic of your plants that is in fact a sunset hygro. It will need lots and lots of light to keep it's pink coloration and not to dye. Expect that to die unless you get some different lighting. (I am the plant lady around if you need something holler..lol) The green plant is Eloda Densa. IT's a great algae buster and will grow quickly if your one of the ones that it likes...lol. I can't get it to grow for me very well. I know of a lot of people who have that plant take over their tanks in a matter of days. The red plant I'm not sure what it is with out a full pic of it. It is in fact dying for one or more reasons. These could be not enough light (the reder the plant the more light it needs to keep it red.) I don't recomend red plants for beginners unless they are willing to upgrade the lighting and invest some time into the tank. The yellowing is lack of iron. Red plants need lots and lots of iron it helps to keep the red in the plant.

That brown stuff your seeing is brown algae wich isn't a algae at all it's a diatom. Beyond that I don't know much more...lol. Been too long since I had to deal with it that I've forgotten a lot about it.

The oil slick that is on the top of the water just means there isn't enough surface movement that's all. If you have a planted tank you don't want a lot of surface movement it'll remove the CO2 that is in the water so the plants can't use it.

As for the testing of the tap did you let the water sit out for a couple days before you tested it or did you test it then and there. If you didnt let it sit out for a couple days this would explain why you got different results from the tank and tap. Retest it and let the water sit for a couple days first. The reason why you do this is because "gas's" that are in the water. Remeber when you filled your tank and there were a lot of little bubbles on the walls of the tank. Those bubbles are the gas's you want to give a chance to escape the tap water before you test the tap. It makes a world of difference in the lvls you'll see I'm betting. Putting tap water straight into the tank isn't going to hurt the tank at alll so don't panic. Those bubbles (if you get them) on the walls of the tank will leave usually with in 24 hrs because of the filter moving the water around the tank.

As for the big bubbles I have those in all my tanks and they won't hurt anything. I usually get them when I've been lazy and the water lvl has droped really low. I wouldn't worry about it.

I think that's all for now. I'll check in a time or two more today to see if you need more help. As always feel free to pm me or e-mail me if you need somethng.

Rose

 

[bogusmove]

Thanks for the proper ID of my plants Rose! I resolved I would never buy a fish without knowing what it was, but have been much more careless with plants... which is silly because they are beautifull too!

Interesting facts about red plants. You know i've read 3 books about aquariums before starting out, as well as much internet reading... I had thought myself at least moderately prepared! I see now now wrong I was! Ha!

The sunset hygro is one of my favourites, they were relatively green when I bought them, with minor pink colouration, but they have become much more red in my tank. I could increase the lighting hours... but I thought more than 12 might give me algae problems... I guess I should have started out with simple plants but the store, although full of advice not to buy fish too soon, was relatively dismissive about plants. I therefore ASSUMED they were resiliant!

This is a pic of my whole aquarium, taken the day after I planted it:
http/www.bogusmove.com/u/mjw/aquarium/pl...ed/allclose.jpg

Here is a good shot of the "redplant" (before dying stage too, very pretty):
http/www.bogusmove.com/u/mjw/aquarium/pl...ed/redclose.jpg

I'll have to get back to the store and ask them what it is if you dont recognise it.

You can see how much greener the sunset hygro was back then too. I had wondered if it was light greedy because the lower parts (shadowed by itself) seem to be dying.

I've done a 50% water change now and skimmed off the oil slick as best I could. I have alot of hair algae growing too now, but maybe the water change will slow it all down.

Thanks for all your advice, and I guess i'll stick to green plants for now, even if the red ones do look nice!! Maybe i'll revisit the reds when I can grow something well other than brown algae!! lol

 

[nightlife20]

before i put my bubble curtain in i had the same kind of bubbles in my tank.... bit smaller tho... i just thought they had come out of my filter.... mind u my filter is an internal one



also if ur doing the fishless cycle like someone else pointed out u do need a scorce of ammonia in ur tank for the bactiria to thrive on, without this they wont reproduce... on my second attempt (dont ask ) i added a bit of fish food every other day... that way they have some food sorce that breaks down into ammonia....



Dawn xx

 

[Rose]

I dont' remember what the red plant is called but it is a BOG plant not an aquarium plant. It's best suited for a half aquarium/ half terarium set up. There's a big long fancy name for that type of set up, I can't spell it or say it so I'm not even going to try

As for the sunset hygro try and plant the stems individually with a little bit of space between them. This will allow the light to hit the bottom of the plant a bit easier. What ever lighting you have on that tank the hygro seems to like it. It pinked right up and looks good. Cut off the dead or dying parts and replant as I have said and you might have a bit more luck with it. I hope you do, it's a awesome plant when it grows.

If you want a plant that will add some color (not anything like the hygro) but almost impossible to kill (at least for me) try Bronze Crypt Wendtii. Crypts are pretty hard to kill especially the wendtii. If your willing to put some time into the plants aspect of the tank once you have fish and what not in the tank let me know and I can help you get some red plants in there that will do well.

As far as I can tell your doing a really good job with the tank. Keep it up and I'll check in again later.

Rose

 

[bogusmove]

Well, things seem to be going much better now. I really appreciate all the comments, so thanks everyone!

I removed the bog plant that Rose identified, it was clearly dying in quite a terminal kinda way.

I found someone at work who could give me some gravel, which I collected this evening and put in my filter, so hopefully i'll have some fish in a few days!

Much hair and brown algae, but it seems to have stopped increasing... and I have some green algae instead

Thanks again everyone!