Cycling help

[Quin]

Will keep that in mind! Making a run to the pet store soon, so I'll be on the look out for those

 

[Byron]

Awesome! So the revised plan would be:

1. Treat the water (dechlorinator solution and tetra safestart)
2. Slowly introduce the fish as the source of ammonia
3. Test tank and partial water change daily
4. Once the tank reaches no amounts of ammonia, nitrate, or nitrite then it has been officially started and from then on only regular maintenance?

This would be safe for my fish of course, right? I'm really worried about making a mistake that harms him

I think you have missed the crux of SafeStart. I'm going to repeat basics a bit to ensure this is understood.

In a new tank, there are no nitrifying bacteria. Fish produce ammonia through respiration, and the natural breakdown of organics produces ammonia, and it accumulates until or unless something removes it. It takes somewhere between 2 and 8 weeks to cycle an aquarium, normally. During this time the ammonia will spike (which would kill fish if they were present) before the Nitrosomonas sp. bacteria establish and multiply sufficiently to handle it, and then the nitrite those bacteria produce will spike (this too would kill fish present) until the Nitrospira sp. bacteria have appeared and multiplied sufficiently to handle the nitrite. These bacteria produce nitrate...we can stop there for now.

When you use SafeStart according to directions on the label, it immediately adds the live Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira bacteria. There is no waiting for these to appear and then multiply. So you can have a fish in the tank from day 1 with SafeStart added. The ammonia produced by one Betta in a 10g tank will easily be taken up by the Nitrosomonas bacteria and the Betta will never know it. You will not see ammonia or nitrite above zero if you follow the directions on the label. The aquarium will be "cycling" but in the background, so to speak. There is no need for daily water changes. Do a partial water change each week, I would do half the tank volume here, using a conditioner. Tetra does say to continue using SafeStart at every water change into the future, but that is not necessary. Once the bacteria species are established, they are there--unless you kill them by drying out, freezing, or some chemical/medication (some do this).

Essjay mentioned floating plants and I had left these out so as not to confuse the SafeStart issue, but she is correct...floating plants can also avoid any cycling issues even in tanks with more fish.

 

[Quin]

I think you have missed the crux of SafeStart. I'm going to repeat basics a bit to ensure this is understood.

In a new tank, there are no nitrifying bacteria. Fish produce ammonia through respiration, and the natural breakdown of organics produces ammonia, and it accumulates until or unless something removes it. It takes somewhere between 2 and 8 weeks to cycle an aquarium, normally. During this time the ammonia will spike (which would kill fish if they were present) before the Nitrosomonas sp. bacteria establish and multiply sufficiently to handle it, and then the nitrite those bacteria produce will spike (this too would kill fish present) until the Nitrospira sp. bacteria have appeared and multiplied sufficiently to handle the nitrite. These bacteria produce nitrate...we can stop there for now.

When you use SafeStart according to directions on the label, it immediately adds the live Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira bacteria. There is no waiting for these to appear and then multiply. So you can have a fish in the tank from day 1 with SafeStart added. The ammonia produced by one Betta in a 10g tank will easily be taken up by the Nitrosomonas bacteria and the Betta will never know it. You will not see ammonia or nitrite above zero if you follow the directions on the label. The aquarium will be "cycling" but in the background, so to speak. There is no need for daily water changes. Do a partial water change each week, I would do half the tank volume here, using a conditioner. Tetra does say to continue using SafeStart at every water change into the future, but that is not necessary. Once the bacteria species are established, they are there--unless you kill them by drying out, freezing, or some chemical/medication (some do this).

So using this knowledge my adjustments are to introduce the fish, and do 50% water changes every week? Since the bacteria is already there in amounts to reduce ammonia and nitrite immediately, is a test kit still recommended? Thank you!

 

[JuiceBox52]

So using this knowledge my adjustments are to introduce the fish, and do 50% water changes every week? Since the bacteria is already there in amounts to reduce ammonia and nitrite immediately, is a test kit still recommended? Thank you!

Yes still get a test kit

 

[Byron]

Yes, I agree, a test kit is worth having. At the first sign of trouble, testing ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH is advisable, and then usually a substantial water change. Then look into specifics.

 

[Quin]

Awesome, I feel much more confident that I know what to do now. As a side question, what do you guys use to change the water in your larger tanks? I'm currently unsure how to even fill my 10g up as my tank and kitchen sink are as far away from each other as physically possible without exiting the house lol. Old ice cream bucket and several trips maybe?

 

[JuiceBox52]

I use a 3 gallon or 5 gallon bucket, just be sure that the bucket is only used for fish and has not had anything but water in it

 

[FishkeeperLinz]

Awesome! So the revised plan would be:

1. Treat the water (dechlorinator solution and tetra safestart)
2. Slowly introduce the fish as the source of ammonia
3. Test tank and partial water change daily
4. Once the tank reaches no amounts of ammonia, nitrate, or nitrite then it has been officially started and from then on only regular maintenance?

This would be safe for my fish of course, right? I'm really worried about making a mistake that harms him

It'll be better for the fish than leaving him in his 1.5gal bowl and carry I out daily water changes,

I think you have missed the crux of SafeStart. I'm going to repeat basics a bit to ensure this is understood.

In a new tank, there are no nitrifying bacteria. Fish produce ammonia through respiration, and the natural breakdown of organics produces ammonia, and it accumulates until or unless something removes it. It takes somewhere between 2 and 8 weeks to cycle an aquarium, normally. During this time the ammonia will spike (which would kill fish if they were present) before the Nitrosomonas sp. bacteria establish and multiply sufficiently to handle it, and then the nitrite those bacteria produce will spike (this too would kill fish present) until the Nitrospira sp. bacteria have appeared and multiplied sufficiently to handle the nitrite. These bacteria produce nitrate...we can stop there for now.

When you use SafeStart according to directions on the label, it immediately adds the live Nitrosomonas and Nitrospira bacteria. There is no waiting for these to appear and then multiply. So you can have a fish in the tank from day 1 with SafeStart added. The ammonia produced by one Betta in a 10g tank will easily be taken up by the Nitrosomonas bacteria and the Betta will never know it. You will not see ammonia or nitrite above zero if you follow the directions on the label. The aquarium will be "cycling" but in the background, so to speak. There is no need for daily water changes. Do a partial water change each week, I would do half the tank volume here, using a conditioner. Tetra does say to continue using SafeStart at every water change into the future, but that is not necessary. Once the bacteria species are established, they are there--unless you kill them by drying out, freezing, or some chemical/medication (some do this).

Essjay mentioned floating plants and I had left these out so as not to confuse the SafeStart issue, but she is correct...floating plants can also avoid any cycling issues even in tanks with more fish.

Perhaps this is my fault. I'm not familiar with the likes of Safe Start, and personally wouldn't trust it to instantly cycle a tank, so I advised OP to treat the starter culture as a kick-start, and assume the tank would still have to cycle. I'm happy to be corrected.

Sorry to the OP for any confusion.

 

[Essjay]

I have never used Tetra Safe Start either, and don't trust these 'bottled bacteria' products to cycle a tank instantly. I know TSS contains the correct species of both bacteria but if the bottle has ever been allowed to get too hot or too cold during transit/storage it may not work. This is why I usually suggest a 'belt and braces' approach of using TSS and ammonia for fishless cycling.

But in this case I had forgotten that the betta is currently in a much smaller uncycled tank not a cycled tank. Where both tanks are not cycled, the bigger tank is always the better option as there is more water to dilute toxins. And using TSS is much better than using nothing as it will make the cycling period shorter.

 

[Quin]

I will definitely still be monitoring the tank, and if the safestart doesnt work i will cycle the tank as usual, but this is hopefully going to get him into better living conditions immediately, rather than in 2-6 weeks

 

[snailaquarium]

I'm not being funny but I don't think "cycling" exists, I've seen like 15 cycling videos on YouTube and they all have the same element of advice, that being, "Do regular water changes".

What is the point in prating about with tests of the water or being concerned with levels of this that and the other, if you are going to simply replace with clean tap water???

You just need to keep he tank clean with fresh water basically. Think about the terms "fresh water fish" ok, FRESH, so simply give them FRESH tap water regularly...

 

[Essjay]

It depends how the cycling is done.

Fish-in cycling needs water changes, usually every day, for several weeks. These are needed to keep the fish from harm.
Fishless cycling does not need water changes during cycling, and when the tank is stocked weekly water changes are fine as there should be more than enough bacteria by the time fish are put in the tank.
Silent cycling does not need daily water changes unless there are not enough plants or too many fish are added for the number of plants. As long as there are more than enough plants to take up the ammonia made by the fish, weekly water changes are fine.

 

[Byron]

I'm not being funny but I don't think "cycling" exists, I've seen like 15 cycling videos on YouTube and they all have the same element of advice, that being, "Do regular water changes".

What is the point in prating about with tests of the water or being concerned with levels of this that and the other, if you are going to simply replace with clean tap water???

You just need to keep he tank clean with fresh water basically. Think about the terms "fresh water fish" ok, FRESH, so simply give them FRESH tap water regularly...

I agree with essjay but I may be able to put a different slant on this. Starting with your last sentence. This is all very true, but it doesn't work as well as you might think.

A fish in a container of water is producing ammonia with each respiration. In addition, if the fish excretes waste, that breaks down (along with any other organic matter) and produces more ammonia. This ammonia increases fairly rapidly, especially in smaller tanks; in very large tanks with very few fish, the more the ammonia dissipates into the water. Most beginning aquarists however tend to have quite small tanks, and they usually put more fish than reasonable, and thus the ammonia is rapidly to the toxic level. Some days later the nitrite will appear, and that too will be highly toxic very quickly. Even if the fish live through this, they have been permanently debilitated and that means additional problems going forward.

If fish are present in a tank which we can consider uncycled, daily water changes certainly will dilute the ammonia/nitrite but likely not remove it, so the fish are still being harmed. If you could be taking out water and replacing it with fresh every minute 24/7, yes, this would work. But I doubt any of us can manage that; and even if 75% of the volume is changed at noon today, by the time we come to the next change at noon tomorrow there is almost certainly going to be ammonia (depending upon the number and size of fish and the volume) harming the fish. The daily massive water changes mean the fish likely will not die immediately, but the harm is still occurring.

All containers of water in which ammonia is present will "cycle" as the bacteria colonize the surfaces. This happens in all fish tanks. It may be unseen if sufficient live plants are present, assuming they are fairly rapid growing plants, and they can take up quite a bit of ammonia. In this situation the cycle is still going to establish, but tests will not likely show ammonia or nitrite along the way because the plants are using most of the ammonia and they do not produce nitrite. The ammonia that gets past the plant uptake to the bacteria is so low our basic tests cannot see it. And all else being equal, it will not be sufficient to cause the fish any harm.