Cycling fishless

Tyler777

Fish Crazy
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I'm gonna start 2 fishless cycling tanks.
A 20 gallons and a 125 gallons tank.

I can use all the advice I get to cycling em successfully.
I never did a fishless cycling so every advice every detail of what to do n how to do it will be very appreciated.

Thank you guys in advance
 
If you already have an established aquarium, take some of the filter media/ material from that and put it in the new tanks. No need to cycle them and you can add fish straight away.
 
Or do a mixture. Use some mature media and add ammonia to check it has enough bacteria to make it safe to get fish.
Move the media across and add ammonia to get a reading of between 2 and 3 ppm, allowing 30 minutes for the ammonia to mix in before checking the reading. Then test for ammonia and nitrite after 24 hours. If both are zero, the mature media contained all the bacteria you need; if one or both are not zero, follow the fishless cycling method until the tank is cycled.
 
It's always taken about a week for the tank to completed cycle when I do the seasoned filter media method. I hear a lot of people say it is safe to add fish right away but everytime I've checked there's a cycle (you can get readings on nitrites) for about a week after adding an ammonia source. Isn't it not entirely safe if there still some ammonia/nitrites showing and shouldn't you wait until that clears out? I've kept fish in high nitrite water before, and many are still alive. So perhaps that isn't as bad so the advice is you can add fish right away?
 
Hello. I realized some time ago that you can prepare a tank for fish by simply removing and replacing enough tank water to keep the nitrogen out. I had a 50 gallon tank I set up and just let it run for a couple of days to allow the water temperature to level. I used a water treatment and a bacteria starter and added some fish. For the first few weeks, I just fed the fish a little every day or even two and removed and replaced half the water every few days, maybe three or four days between water changes and always dosed the water treatment and bacteria starter with each water change. After a few weeks, I allowed five to six days between water changes and never had a problem with the fish. The tank has been running for more than a year and the population of the tank has increased from 12 to 18 individuals. It's just about changing most of the water sooner than the nitrogen from the dissolving fish waste can accumulate in the water and harm the fish.

10
 
Two things worth noting here. First, the fishless cycling guide here is written with the assumption that there are neither live plants nor any seeding of bacteria being used. When either or both are being used it changes everything and the numbers in the article will never appear as expected.

10 Yanks keeps saying he does not cycle and then explains exactly how he cycles. When one seed bacteria they are accelerating a cycle not making it nit needed or not happening. 10 has a lot of bacteria and Archaea at work in his tanks no matter what he tries to say to the contrary.

To prevent a cycle from happening takes a fair amount of effort specifically done to achieve that result.

What Essjay wrote is some of the most accurate information in this thread.

Ammonia exists in 2 forms in water. How much is in the form of ammonia the gas, aka NH# is what metters. There rest of the total ammonia will be ammonium aka NH4. Ammonia at low levels harms and even kills fish. Ammonium need to be present in much higher concentrations and for much more time to harm fish. But it harms them by burning their gills and other body parts (especially the exterior ones), what it doesn't do it enter their blood stream.

So just having total ammonia present doesn't mean it is doing harm especially when it is dropping to 0 on a matter of days. They key to it all is how much total ammonia one tests and then what the specific pH and temperature of the water is. The higher these are, the more of the ammonia will be in the toxic form.

In general, the bacteria and Archaea consume NH3 while plants and algae consume NH4. The actual formula for the ammonium Ion is NH₄⁺. The reason ammonium is less harmful than ammonia is because the size of the NH3 is bigger than NH4 and it cannot pass though the gills and into the bloodstream whereas the NH3 can.

What all of this means for us when we test ammonia levels is whether we need to do anything to deal with it or we can let things continue to proceed naturally without out needing to intervene.

One last note here. When I read or hear people say that their fish were not harmed by elevated ammonia, nitrite or nitrate I tend to think OH Boy!. How does one know what internal damage might have occurred to a fish? How do you know that you have not shortened the life of the fish or made it sterile? You absolutely have no idea about this.

We can no more predict what the lifespan of any one of our fish will be than we can do for any person or animal on the planet. I am 76 and I have no idea when I will die. I can say is I will not be alive 76 years from now. In fact I would bet anybody that this is the case. The only problem is I never be alive to collect on that bet.

I will leave readers with this thought. I have never seen any science which suggests there is a benefit to fish being exposed to lower level of ammonia or nitrite for any length of time. However, there is a way to protect fish from nitrite poisoning by using chloride in the water. Chloride is found in salt which is why nitrite is usually not an issue in SW tanks.
Are nitrites toxic in saltwater?

There are various situations where a temporary increase in nitrite concentration may occur. However, due to the high chloride content, nitrite in seawater is much less harmful than in fresh water. Nevertheless, the value should be observed because it indicates a disturbance in the nitrogen cycle.

The problem with nitrite is that, once inside a fish, it takes time to work its way out. This can be anywhere from 24 to about 72 hours. However, this requires that there not be more nitrite in the water entering the fish. This is why adding salt to FW tank with nitrite is so helpful. It prevents further nitrite from getting inside of a fish which also allows what may already be there to work its way out.

The one thing that is known to help with nitrite inside a fish is Methylene Blue- but this stuff stains anything it touches. Below is from Spruce Pets:

Nitrite or Cyanide Poisoning​

As an aid in reversing nitrite (NO2−) or cyanide (CN−) poisoning of marine or freshwater fish, use Methylene Blue in the following application:
  1. Remove carbon filter and continue to operate with mechanical filter media throughout the treatment period.
  2. Add 1 teaspoon (5 ml) of 2.303% Methylene Blue per 10 gallons of water. This produces a concentration of 3 ppm. Continue the treatment for 3 to 5 days.
  3. Make a water change and replace the filter carbon at the conclusion of the treatment.

I would only use the above if nitrite levels are very high and fish are likely going to die. Otherwise, chloride would be the best option, IMO. And then there is this, also from Spruce:

Safe Applications​


Methylene Blue can be used with crustaceans, including crabs, shrimp, and snails, but should be introduced carefully. It will damage live plants at doses over 4 mg/L and should be used with caution in such cases, ensuring that plants are exposed for only limited periods of time.

Methylene Blue should not be used concurrently with Erythromycin or Tetracycline antibiotics. After using a Redox reducing type of water conditioner (which includes most water conditioners), wait for 30 minutes before adding Methylene Blue. Discontinue the use of carbon media in filters while treating, as carbon will remove the Methylene Blue.
The above quotes are from https://www.thesprucepets.com/methylene-blue-1379926
 
Hello. Just to clarify, what I'm saying is you can have fish from day two of setting up a new tank. You fill the tank, add a tap water conditioner and a bacteria starter and allow the water temperature to settle. You can add a few fish in a couple of days and remove and replace half the water a couple of times a week to remove toxins from the fish waste material. Always treat the new water with a conditioner and liquid bacteria. I've done this several times and never had an issue with high nitrogen levels, because I remove and replace the water before there's time for toxins build up to anywhere near a toxic level. Add to this a strict feeding routine and your fish will be fine.

Please note: I only keep larger tanks. A smaller one may need more than two water changes weekly, but I don't keep anything smaller than 45 gallons.

10
 
Sorry bout my no knowledge whatsoever but what is the mature media n how do I get it to put it in another tank ?
Hello. I realized some time ago that you can prepare a tank for fish by simply removing and replacing enough tank water to keep the nitrogen out. I had a 50 gallon tank I set up and just let it run for a couple of days to allow the water temperature to level. I used a water treatment and a bacteria starter and added some fish. For the first few weeks, I just fed the fish a little every day or even two and removed and replaced half the water every few days, maybe three or four days between water changes and always dosed the water treatment and bacteria starter with each water change. After a few weeks, I allowed five to six days between water changes and never had a problem with the fish. The tank has been running for more than a year and the population of the tank has increased from 12 to 18 individuals. It's just about changing most of the water sooner than the nitrogen from the dissolving fish waste can accumulate in the water and harm the fish.

10
Ok thanks for the advice my man
Hello. Just to clarify, what I'm saying is you can have fish from day two of setting up a new tank. You fill the tank, add a tap water conditioner and a bacteria starter and allow the water temperature to settle. You can add a few fish in a couple of days and remove and replace half the water a couple of times a week to remove toxins from the fish waste material. Always treat the new water with a conditioner and liquid bacteria. I've done this several times and never had an issue with high nitrogen levels, because I remove and replace the water before there's time for toxins build up to anywhere near a toxic level. Add to this a strict feeding routine and your fish will be fine.

Please note: I only keep larger tanks. A smaller one may need more than two water changes weekly, but I don't keep anything smaller than 45 gallons.

10
Ok brother, thank you so much for your advice
 
Hello. Apologies. Here I go again preaching. Not my intention. There are many ways to get a tank ready for fish. So, I'll leave the subject alone and allow everyone to pursue the way they feel is best.

Thanks for reading, though.

10
 
Hello. Apologies. Here I go again preaching. Not my intention. There are many ways to get a tank ready for fish. So, I'll leave the subject alone and allow everyone to pursue the way they feel is best.

Thanks for reading, though.

10
Thank you for writing my friend. You write I read
 
what is the mature media
Mature media is filter media which has been running in a tank with fish for some time - long enough for the media to have grown a lot of bacteria.
It is used by taking some media from this tank which has been running some time and putting it into the brand new filter of a new tank. Some of the media in the new filter is left out to make room for the media from the other tank. And new media is added to the older filter to fill up the space left by removing media. Sponge media is the easiest to use as sponges can be cut up to make them fit.

The reason I suggested moving media from your existing tank to the new one and checking by adding ammonia (see post #3) is because of my experience. I saw some fish I'd always wanted in a store so I went home and set up my quarantine tank using media from the filter in my main tank. To be on the safe side, I added a dose of ammonia and tested next day. The reading was still the same as when I'd added the ammonia. And the same reading next day, and next day, and next day........ It took a full 7 week fishless cycle to get the quarantine tank ready (it always takes 7 weeks for my tanks/water). If I had got fish without checking with ammonia I would have been doing a fish-in cycle with stressed, newly purchased fish.



Or you can do a fish-in cycle which involves adding fish to an uncycled tank and doing a water change whenever ammonia and/or nitrite read above zero until enough bacteria have grown to 'eat' all the ammonia and nitrite. The fish keeper must be prepared to do a lot of water changes, probably big water changes every day for a few weeks. It's the constant water changes and risk of fish being harmed that's the reason for doing a fishless cycle.
 

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