Cycling Again.... Deaths, What Should I Do Next?

[schmee]

Hi,

I would really appreciate some help and guidance to know whether i'm doing the right thing and whether it's likely to get worse. i found two amano shrimp dead today and seem to be going through a cycle. Can i prevent more deaths?

The tank is 34l and has been set up for 11 weeks with plants in, it was cycled fishless using fish food and had double 0s and no problems before the shrimp and frogs were added. The first fish/shrimp were introduced about 5 weeks ago, and the latest 2 weeks ago. Stocking: amano shrimp (2-4), 4 African Dwarf Frogs, 1 hitchhiking pond snail, 8 pygmy corys, 1 male betta. Not ideal, i know. The betta will soon have his own 34l planted tank, but it will be a few weeks before it is ready for him to move in to.

Normal water parameters: usually pH: 6.4 (was 7.4 until change to sand and introduction of bog wood. Not sure which caused the change, i know this is not good, but i'm thinking it would be worse to now try and change the pH back and better to keep it stable at 6.4. This change occured 1-2 weeks ago.)
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: usually between 20-40ppm before pwc.
PWC of 30% once a week.
I use Tap Safe with pwc but do not add anything else to the tank (except food!)

Feed once a day (this may all be totally wrong but i'm not quite sure). i feed betta only 1 pellet hikari betta bio-gold per day. This is because if i give him 2 or 3, he takes them, spits them out, takes them, spits them out etc. until eventually he leaves them and as i don't want left over food, i assume it's better not to feed more. i then feed 1/2 cube frozen bloodworms, which everybody eats (including betta). Occasionally feed frozen brine shrimp instead. No food on Fridays after pwc. Feed in evenings an hour or so after lights out.

The problem is that i seem to be going through another cycle. Last Saturday, just before the new filter (see below for filter problems story) was introduced, i found 0.25ppm Ammonia in the tank, and Nitrites was 5. i did 50% pwc. I added the new filter and put some carbon and some of the sponge from the old filter into the new one. The new one if much smaller so i couldn't add much old media. i also wasn't sure how useful it would be, being only 10 weeks old or so, and having been turned off for a couple of days.
Yesterday, my water stats were:
pH 6.4
NH3: 0.50
NO-2: 0
NO-3: 20

i immediately did a 75% pwc.

Later i tested again and found:
pH: 6.4
NH3: 0.25
NO-2:0
NO-3: 0-5

I did a 60% pwc.

Today, i woke to find a slightly cloudy tank, i thought that was strange and was watching for a while, when i noticed a body. Then another. Two amano shrimp were dead. One was pink and missing his legs so i'm guessing he was dead a while without me noticing. i had noticed a smell, but the tank is quite packed with plants, wood and caves so that it's difficult to see things like that. i removed the 2 dead shrimp. i have spotted 2 live today, so there should be 2 more about. One i haven't seen in a long while, but they do disappear and then turn up, the other i saw as recently as yesterday so i'm looking out for more bodies.

i tested the water again:

NH3: 0
NO-2: 20
NO-3: 0

So, I did another PWC around 60-70%

The latest stats are from about an hour ago:

NH3: 0
NO-2: 0.25
NO-3: 0

So, i think it's getting better, but i'm not sure if that means another spike is coming. Any ideas what i can expect?


I think this was all caused by my filter problems. 2 weeks ago, it started playing up and was overflowing. This was only a few days after i switched substrate from gravel to sand which i think is what messed up the filter. i finally managed to get it to stop 5 days later by squeezing out the carbon and removing a portion (1/3). The filter came with the tank (ViaAqua 380). i couldn't classify it as it doesn't seem to exist outside of this particular tank. It has a very large compartment, filled with a sponge, carbon and ceramic noodles. Anyway, the filter then worked for a day but started messing up again. It was no longer overflowing but not filling up at all so the flow went right down.

4 days ago, I bought a new filter. An AquaVital AVI600 internal filter. The flow is now 600l/h as opposed to 396l/h with the old one. However, i have turned the output of the filter right down as it disturbs my fish, particularly betta.

i imagine that because of the new filter + relatively new substrate (i did leave some of the old substrate in a tights bag under the old filter for a week after the change but again, this is the old filter.) caused another cycle. Could i have handled the changeover better? i really don't want to lose any more critters. Is there anything more i can do to prevent this??

Thank you for your help.

 

[james_fish]

Fishless cycling using food is a very unaccurate method. It is very hard to tell how much ammonia rotting food actually produces. It could be literally next to nothing.

Did you transfer sponges and/or media from your old filter to your new filter? If not, you have started in a new cycle.

James.

 

[schmee]

I added the new filter and put some carbon and some of the sponge from the old filter into the new one. The new one if much smaller so i couldn't add much old media. i also wasn't sure how useful it would be, being only 10 weeks old or so, and having been turned off for a couple of days.

Yes. But i'm not sure how effective it was.

i know my cycling method wasn't the most accurate but it was all i knew at the time. It got the job done though and i didn't had problems until the filter broke down.

So what should i be doing now? Keep on with pwc until i have double 0s again or should i be feeding the cycle? i'm a little confused about where i am in the cycle you see.

 

[james_fish]

I added the new filter and put some carbon and some of the sponge from the old filter into the new one. The new one if much smaller so i couldn't add much old media. i also wasn't sure how useful it would be, being only 10 weeks old or so, and having been turned off for a couple of days.

Yes. But i'm not sure how effective it was.

i know my cycling method wasn't the most accurate but it was all i knew at the time. It got the job done though and i didn't had problems until the filter broke down.

So what should i be doing now? Keep on with pwc until i have double 0s again or should i be feeding the cycle? i'm a little confused about where i am in the cycle you see.

Yes, keep doing your water changes and testing the water. Ideally you should cycle with ammonia but now you can't add ammonia from a bottle into a tank with fish, so you'll have to let your fish be the cyclers... Fish-in cycle.

But yeah, just keep on top of your water changes for the time being

James.

 

[schmee]

Ok. i get confused easily with the cycling. When my nitrites drop to 0 again, would i expect that to be over? ie. stop the frequent pwc?

Just so i get it sorted in my head, does it go ammnonia spike, nitrite spike, then double 0 and nitrates rise? i'm hoping so. Obviously did this before, but as there were no fish, i wasn't so worried and pretty much let it do its thing.

Also, is there anything in particular i should look out for as side effects of the ammnonia/nitrite poisoning the fish have had for the couple of days i've been trying to get it under control? Can i do anything to help them? That said, everyone is looking healthy at the mo. The shrimp have been hiding a lot more than usual though and the corys are extra skittish but that may be coincidence. Everyone's fins look fine, eyes are fine, nobody is sitting on the floor looking sorry for themselves (except the frogs, but that's normal!), nobody is hanging around the surface or gasping. i know it's not over yet, but might i be lucky?

Thanks for your help.

 

[WILDER]

Yours tanks severely overstocked. Your filter not coping with the load of fish and inverts.
Until you reduce your stocking you will not have good water quality.
Bogwood lowers ph.
Also ph will change in a cycling tank.

I would reduce your stocking by rehoming the corys. The tanks to small for them anyway.
Also 4 frogs in to much in that size tank.

 

[schmee]

Actually, if you read the post, my filter was coping fine until it broke down and the new filter is even more powerful, or will be once it has cycled. It was changing filters which prompted a new cycle.

Yes, it is a little, or a lot overstocked, but as stated, the betta is moving to a new home when it is ready for him. The shrimp have dwindled in numbers. If you're going inch per gallon then yes, it is very overstocked, however the fish/critters are happy, they have swimming space and the filter was coping, nitrates generally rising to 20-30 after a week, controlled by 30% weekly pwc. i wouldn't call that unmanageable.

Re. the corys, all sources i read stated that they need a minimum tank size of 10g (which is what i have - 34l). Yes, it is a little overstocked, i admit that. We are talking pygmaeus, in case you were thinking of habrosus.

 

[WILDER]

All you can do is keep doing water changes and increase aeration.

 

[schmee]

Could i have a little help re. where i am in the cycle.

Yesterday:

NH3 0
NO-2 2.0
NO-3 0

60% pwc

After:

NH3 0
NO-2 0.25
NO-3 0

Today:

NH3 0.50
NO-2 0.25
NO-3 0

60% pwc

After:

NH3 0.25
NO-2 0
NO-3 0



i'm concerned that i had nitrites and now i don't again. i'm doing 2 pwc a day at the moment. Should i do more than that? Will it speed it up or stall the cycle? Should i be feeding normally? Extra? Not at all? Please help me with this.

 

[WILDER]

Keep preforming water changes till ammonia and nitrite are 0.
Even if you have to do 2 to 3 water changes aday.
Water changes can stall the cycle abit but they need to be done.

Salt helps in a cycling tank but you can't add it with the frogs, shrimp, corys.
All raising the temp helps speed things up. But I would leave the temp.

Cut back on feeding.