Cycling a new tank with an already existing tank..

[silver]

I just bought a 30 gallon and I don't want to wait for the whole cycling process (not that any of us do) and the losing fish process. I already have a 55 gallon that is, of course, cycled. Now, can I take 20 gallons out of the 55 and put it in the 30g tank and then fill the other 8-10 gall. up with treated tap like I do when I do ordinary water changes???

I would think that it would work okay? What do you think? Does anyone practice this method regularly? Has anyone here done that? I know someone has to have.....

I will be taking some of the gravel out of the 55 and a couple decor. that are pretty algae-afyed!! This should help bring bacteria into the tank right?

Silver

 

[marks69]

you get very little help with the cycle by using water.run both filters on the cycled tank for a week or so, bag up some gravel for the new tank and you should only get a minicycle and be ready.
you still have to watch your water params, but it's alot quicker than the regular cycle.
gl
mark

 

[silver]

Good idea running the new filter in the already established tank! But, unfortunatley it would take quite a bit of work to make that happen. I have a nice oak canopy and the new filter is the kind that hooks onto and over the top of the tank so I'd have to take my canopy off and cut new holes in my tank lid. I have 3 cats so I wouldn't want to risk not having my canopy on.

What if I just took a bunch of gravel and 20 gallons of water? Will that do anything.....or will I still have to wait out the cycling before transferring fish from my 55 to my 30?


Silver

 

[Bol]

The gravel will probably help significantly, but it most likely won't produce an "instant cycle". Also, just as a reminder, as soon as you put the gravel (i.e. the 'good' bacteria) in the new tank, it'll need food (i.e. ammonia).

Most people will agree with mark, that the water probably won't help much. Probably wouldn't hurt, though.

How much will gravel help? Hard to say, but I can offer one data point from my experience.

I once cycled a 10g tank with gravel, some filter floss, and water from my 46g tank. I used about ... 3 cups of gravel from the main tank, in a bowl, and my water was exclusively from the main tank. I had three lemon tetras in the tank. Ammonia and nitrites did spike, but they didn't get above 1 ppm, respectively. The cycle was complete in about five days.

 

[silver]

That is really !!!

I think I will take about a half-gallon of the gravel from my 55 and put it in the 30. I will also take 2 plants and 2 decorations from it. They are fairly algae ridden as well so they should have a lot of bacteria too!?? The sucky thing is that I just changed my 55 fluval filter media (remember?) and I threw out the sponge that was in there! I bet that would have been good to use some how?!

How should I do this then....

I plan on filling the tank up tonight and decorating it, starting the heater and filter and bubbler....all that. Could I add my fish tomorrow!?? Or is there a chance that they could die..? Should I wait a week or does there have to be fish in the tank for it to "cycle completely"?? If I do water spec. tests every day I could just monitor it really good? Or should I just not add the fish.......YIKES, I mean CRIKEY!!

HELP ME

Silver

 

[Bol]

First, let me toss a huge disclaimer on what I posted before:

That's what I did. It worked for me. Once. With the way that aquaria are so "individual", I am not that confident that I could duplicate those results if I repeated the exact same steps. That is, as they say, "your mileage may vary".

Ok, now that that's out of the way...

I, personally, would get in the mindset that you're still "doing a cycle" on a new tank, even though you've got some significant help. If you add fish right away, they can certainly still be stressed and/or die.

On the other hand, once you introduce some 'good' bacteria, it'll need food, or it will die. That means you should add a source of ammonia. You can go with either a 'standard' cycle with fish, or a 'fishless' cycle, whichever you're more comfortable with. Personally, I'd use fish.

If you go with a 'fishless' cycle, make sure you have a solid understanding of what's involved, before you start. Among other things, it could prevent a stressful scramble around town, looking for 'pure' ammonia ... on a Sunday, no less. That said, I'd probably add the first dose of ammonia right after filling the tank.

If you go with fish, then what I'd probably do is something like this:

Set up the tank tonight, and fill it with water (use old water if you wish). Let it run all night, to make sure that you have no obviously defective equipment, and to let the heater stabilize the temperature. Then, in the morning, do your gravel transfer, and then try to introduce your 'cycling fish' within a few hours.

A couple of other things you may want to consider:

* The old gravel isn't 'free'. That is, remember that if you transfer gravel from the old tank, you're removing beneficial bacteria from the old tank, too. If you take too much out, you run the risk of 'crashing' the old tank. The risk in your case may be slightly higher, since you just changed your filter media (less if you just changed the sponge, and left your Bio-surface things in). Keep an eye on the old tank's parameters, too, for a few days.

* I'm not sure if I'd intentionally add algae to a new tank. I'm not certain if the algae itself is a good bacteria bed or not.

 

[silver]

Thanks a ton........that is what I will do. It's Saturday morning now.....I didn't fill the tank last night - too tired -. I will fill it this afternoon and maybe add the fish tomorrow.




Silver

 

[Bol]

Sounds like a good plan, only two other things I'll mention (or maybe repeat):

If you set the tank up tonight, but don't put fish in until tomorrow, I personally would not transfer the gravel over until tomorrow. It probably makes little difference, but I'd minimize the amount of time the bacteria had 'no food'. Err on the side of caution, and all that.

You might not want to go for an entire fish load right from the beginning. Maybe half of your expected end load.

 

[babyfish]

When you change the sponge medium on your filter you should cut the old and new sponges in half and only replace the top half at a time, this stops your tank from going through a cycle.
Algae is not a good thing to put in a tank unless you have algae eaters. The water in your tank does not carry enough beneficial bacteria to do any good with the cycle, it does however help with not stressing the fish out too much with the change of tanks.
If you can, take out a jug full of tank water and rinse the sponge from your established filter in it, then soak your sponge from the new filter in the same water, this will colonise the new sponge with bacteria.
Don't overfeed the fish and test the water frequently until the tank is settled

 

[silver]

Well,
I did it!

I filled the 30 gallon up with 13 gallons of water out of my 55g. And 13 gallons of fresh (treated of course) I bought 25 pounds of really pretty blue rock at Petco, rinsed it well, and put that in along with about 5 - 6 cups of my gravel from my 55g. The gravel in the 55 was pretty full of stuff so it clouded up my "new" tank water pretty good. Should I add more.....??

Got the filter going........man it's sort of cheap compared to my Fluval but it's for up to a 35 gallon. Seems fairly simple too, you just slip the media into it's slots and you're off. It hangs onto the back of the tank which is nice....I think (don't know yet) WAY different than my Fluval which I have to disconnect, take apart....clean off all the DARN snails.....mess with the ICKY media and replace it and THEN hassle with getting the flow going again when I put it back together......I guess there is good and bad points to it. My heater is for up to a 20 or 25 gallon, but it will be fine. I've got my air going and the decor. in and set up. I think I will add a few fish tonight and a few tomorrow and then the last 2 or 3 in a week.

Sound good??

Silver

 

[pendragon]

If I may offer my humble (but honest) opinion, you seem *ahem* way too anxious to get all your fish in the tank, to put it lightly. You must realize that impatience never leads to good things; remember "anything worth having is worth waiting for" blah blah blah. Don't risk your fishes' well-being because you can't wait. You *can* wait, it's just difficult. B) We all get excited about setting up a new tank and our minds are zooming with possibilities and we want it setup and running TOMORROW, by golly! But no matter what you do, your tank will come to equilibrium on its own terms in its own time (you can speed up the process by seeding the gravel, but it will most assuredly not be tomorrow), and if you overpopulate before then your fish will pay the penalty for your impatience, with either their death or discomfort.

My opinion: Use a few fish of a hardy variety at first - only a few. Seed the new tank with gravel from the already-cycled one. Get a water test kit, if you don't already own one (or be prepared to take water samples to your LFS as necessary) and test the water every couple of days. When you have zero ammonia AND zero nitrites - and not until! - add more fish in small numbers, and repeat. When ammonia AND nitrite are undetectable again, add a few more. Repeat until you're at capacity, or happy, whichever comes first. This is the safest way possible, and even it cannot guarantee you won't lose fish (and thus, money). In my judgement, you are gambling with your fishes' health if you continue. Seeding the tank with gravel should help the cycle go quicker, but still tanks cycle in nature's timeframe, not in ours. I do not think it is very likely at all that your tank will be able to support a full bio-load in a couple of weeks, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Again, just my opinion. Your money, your fish.

pendragon!

 

[silver]

No,
I can wait.......I have before and I will do it again someday I'm sure. I just thought that if you have an already established tank that it can REALLY help out the process and speed it up a lot. That's what I've heard and that's why I asked the question. I added 3 fish tonight and will not add anymore for another week if all goes well. Next weekend I will add one of my Angels and my 3 cories and that will be it. The 3 fish that I put in there are 2 gourami's and my Blood Parrot. The good thing is that if things do look like they are getting bad, which I don't think they will, I can rush them back into the 55. I hope I don't have to do that because I think a fish out of water is a very stressed fish. This is only the second time I have taken these guys out of the water in over a year so that's pretty good I suppose.

I asked if I should do this and I got answers......many. Opinions, Facts...there is no HUGE difference when it comes down to me (a person who doesn't know too much about this subject) asking people who don't really know "for sure" either (but are more knowledable ). There is always a sliver of doubt or a possibility that something will go wrong. I just hope nothing does, but I have options if it does make a turn for the worst.


Thanks,

Silver

 

[silver]

Hello,

It's been about 12 hours now and my ammonia is at 0.25ppm. I know this isn't too incredibly high......just wanted to share!


Silver



P.S.
When should I get concerned about the ppm level of ammonia before doing a water change to this new tank? Do I let it get higher or start doing them now??

Bol.....where are you !!!

 

[pendragon]

When should I get concerned about the ppm level of ammonia before doing a water change to this new tank?

It depends largely on your water's pH level. Ammonia is *far* more toxic as your pH gets higher. If your pH is 6.5 then you aren't in the "danger zone" until ammonia gets up in the 10 ppm range, but at a pH of 7.8 a concentration of 0.5 ppm is equally toxic. If your pH is in the 7.0-ish range, your fish are generally considered "safe" up to 5.0 ppm or so.

pendragon!

 

[silver]

Thanks,

How do I know what my PH is? Is there a test kit for that too? I better go to Petco and see!!!!


Silver