Cycle Stalled?

[Notsofab]

I am concerned about the Cycle status of my tank, especially as I am going away on holiday in 10 days time and am worried about the quality of my water deteriorating whilst I'm away.

My tank has been running for 5 weeks now. For the first 2 weeks I used 'Cycle' to supposedly cycle my tank ( Yes I know better now ). After 2 weeks I tested the water, results were something like ammonia=0.6, nitrite=0.2, nitrate=40. I thought the tank was cycled so we added 3 Balloon Mollies. The Mollies didn't seem very happy and kept hiding behind the pump. I tested again at the end of week 3, ammonia=1.2, nitrite=0.8, nitratre=40. I wasn't happy with the behaviour of the fish and to be honest I paniced a bit.

So I removed the fish temporarily and emptied 95% of the water. I removed a clam shell air feature, which was covered in white particles ( white fluff ) and replaced it with a bubble wall. I refilled the tank with dechlorinated water and got it back upto temperature, before putting the fish back. The Mollies went back in.

The tank has seemed much happier since. My water stats returned to the levels I was getting before, ammonia=0.6, nitrite=0.2, nitrate=40. After week 4, I added two dwarf gouramis. Since adding the gouramis I have been doing daily 25% water changes.

I am now 5 weeks in and my water stats as of last night were ammonia=0.6, nitrite=0.2, nitrate=40. ( Tap water = 0, 0, 20 incidentally ). I have ten days before I leave on holiday.

Can somebody please recommend how I should proceed? I didn't really understand before that having such a low level of ammonia wasn't toxic at my pH level (ph7.8) or that the 0.2 Nitrite level wasn't harmful either. Should I ease up on the water changes or continue with the daily 25% changes? Is having such low levels of ammonia in the tank preventing the cycle from completing?

All of the fish seem very happy in the tank and the activity level has soured since I added the air stone. The fish look good too and do not show any signs of distress. We even have 2 fry that have survived in the tank since week 2 now and show good signs of growth.

So I don't really think my tanks cycle is complete. I am concerned that the cycle stalled when I removed the clam shell feature. I haven't seen any massive spikes in any of the tests, neither have I seen any 0 test results either.

Where do I go from here? ( definately won't add any more fish!! )

 

[breezer40]

A tank is not cycled until it has
0 ammonia
0 Nitrite

Adding the fish before completing the cycle means the bacteria can not cope so the fish are litterally swimming in a toilet. The only way to TRY to save these fish is to do daily water changes to dilute the waste.

 

[Notsofab]

Adding the fish before completing the cycle means the bacteria can not cope so the fish are litterally swimming in a toilet. The only way to TRY to save these fish is to do daily water changes to dilute the waste.

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According to my test results booklet, an ammonia reading of 1.2 at a pH of 7.8 still falls in the green 'safe' zone so my reading at 0.6 should be safe. The Nitrite result booklet also says that levels of Nitrite below 0.3 mg/l are not dangerous either. Is this correct?

So should I continue with dialy 25% changes then? Or should I monitor the water closely and maybe do changes every 48 hours? If I continue to change water on a daily basis, diluting ammonia and nitrites, then surely this will just prolong the amount of time it takes for beneficial bacteria to grow? If I moved to changing every 2 days, would this help the tank to complete its cycle quicker ( assuming that the water parameters remain below the levels indicated as dangerous )?

 

[rdd1952]

I didn't really understand before that having such a low level of ammonia wasn't toxic at my pH level (ph7.8) or that the 0.2 Nitrite level wasn't harmful either.

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According to my test results booklet, an ammonia reading of 1.2 at a pH of 7.8 still falls in the green 'safe' zone so my reading at 0.6 should be safe. The Nitrite result booklet also says that levels of Nitrite below 0.3 mg/l are not dangerous either. Is this correct?.

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I'd say your book is definitely incorrect. Ammonia at 1.2 ppm may be ok ak low pH (under 6.5) but is definitely toxic at higher ph levels like yours. The higher the pH, the more toxic ammonia becomes. With a pH of 7.8 even a small amount of ammonia cold be deadly. Unless you can get some filter media from a cycled tank to seed it with, I don't se any way that you will be cycled in 10 days with the quantity of fish you have. For now, all you can do is continue the water changes to keep the levels down. Try to find someone that can give you an old filter to seed the tank or someone that can come by and do water changes while you are gone. How long will you be gone? When you leave, both ammonia and nitrite need to be at 0 or you definitely run the risk of losing all your fish while your gone, especially if you will be gone for more than a couple days.

 

[Clairel]

Cant someone come and do water changes for you whilst your on holiday?

Claire x

 

[Notsofab]

I'd say your book is definitely incorrect. Ammonia at 1.2 ppm may be ok ak low pH (under 6.5) but is definitely toxic at higher ph levels like yours. The higher the pH, the more toxic ammonia becomes. With a pH of 7.8 even a small amount of ammonia cold be deadly.

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I have scanned the chart which is published on the back page of the ammonia test kit and posted it here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=109814&st=
This really is so confusing? Company's cannot publish this kind of factual information if it is scientifically incorrect without being liable. So what is the correct answer? Because if you are right rdd1952 then I am going to be writing to Hagen about their products. Unless of course I am mis-reading the chart?

 

[trace1]

if you have still got 10 days it mite be ok by the time you go away, i made the same mistake with my first tank & just 1 day everything was as its supposed to be. think it was about 6 weeks in total, so you mite just be ok

 

[rdd1952]

This really is so confusing? Company's cannot publish this kind of factual information if it is scientifically incorrect without being liable. So what is the correct answer? Because if you are right rdd1952 then I am going to be writing to Hagen about their products. Unless of course I am mis-reading the chart?

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I'm not sure I understand the chart either. From looking at the chart and at the link that modernhamlet posted, it looks like the the numbers inside that chart are the un-iodixed ammonia or the dangerous part. Beyond that, I'm not sure.

I do know that an ammonia level of 7.3 isn't going to be safe at any pH other than a very low one. At low pH levels, about 6.0 and below, ammonia actually becomes ammonium which is non-toxic so it would be safe at very low pH. One thing is true on the chart. As the pH gets higher, the ammonia becomes more dangerous. The pure and simple truth of the matter is that any level other than 0 is not safe for fish and will kill them eventually.

As for printing info that isn't factual, it's quite common. There are some fish books out that are a total joke with the info they give on stocking schemes and levels.

 

[sinistral]

Actually, judging from the chart link you posted, I think your aquarium is in the "safe" range for ammonia.

If I'm not mistaken, you are supposed to test the water and then compare the number you get to the numbers along the x-axis of the chart (1.2, 2.4, 3.7, etc). This represents the total ammonia.

This total ammonia, according to your test kit, does *not* represent the toxicity of ammonia in your tank.

Then you look up that column until you find the box corresponding to the pH of your tank. The number contained in that box represents the unionized ammonia, or NH3. This number represents the concentration of the toxic form of ammonia which exists in an equilibrium with the less toxic NH4.

Is 0.6 the lowest testable quanta? Is it possible to measure 0.0?

Incidentally, balloon mollies aren't the best choice of fish for the new tank. Mollies tend to be sensitive about water conditions. Also, since they are a fish with larger ratio of girth per length, they will tend to put out more waste.

One way of testing the completeness of bacterial growth is to allow the tank to go for two days without a water change. If the results are identical to your result after day 1 (i.e. 0.6/0.2/40) I'd suggest that you wait another day and re-measure. It may be that these numbers actually do represent a completed cycle and that the Hagen test kit, due to the way the test was designed, is actually reading zeroes across the board.

Another way to go about things is to get another test kit that's slightly less complex. HTH~

 

[FreshwaterFishie]

I'd say your book is definitely incorrect. Ammonia at 1.2 ppm may be ok ak low pH (under 6.5) but is definitely toxic at higher ph levels like yours. The higher the pH, the more toxic ammonia becomes. With a pH of 7.8 even a small amount of ammonia cold be deadly.

[snapback]924537[/snapback]​

I have scanned the chart which is published on the back page of the ammonia test kit and posted it here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=109814&st=
This really is so confusing? Company's cannot publish this kind of factual information if it is scientifically incorrect without being liable. So what is the correct answer? Because if you are right rdd1952 then I am going to be writing to Hagen about their products. Unless of course I am mis-reading the chart?

[snapback]924639[/snapback]​

Hagen is not incorrect. They mean that fish will survive in those levels, but at the edge. The tank is not cycled and safe until it has:
0 Ammonia
0 Nitrite
About 20 Nitrate, not high

If you want, you can email Hagen and tell them this info. so the consumer know.
Freshwater Fish Centre has a good Nitrogen Cycle page.

 

[rdd1952]

Hagen is not incorrect. They mean that fish will survive in those levels, but at the edge.

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So technically they may be correct. It is still terrible information. That's the same as saying a goldfish can live in a gallon bowl. Technically they can but not for long. Fish in water with those ammonia levels and gf in gallon bowls will both result in miserable fish with shortened lives.

 

[FreshwaterFishie]

Hagen is not incorrect. They mean that fish will survive in those levels, but at the edge.

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So technically they may be correct. It is still terrible information. That's the same as saying a goldfish can live in a gallon bowl. Technically they can but not for long. Fish in water with those ammonia levels and gf in gallon bowls will both result in miserable fish with shortened lives.

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That's what I meant...you worded it better.

 

[FreshwaterFishie]

Here is what Hagen said,

Dear Rory,
I have read through our test kit booklet, and at no point does it indicate that the green zone is safe. The written instructions on the inside of the booklet state that if the levels fall in the green zone, you should check your ammonia level regularly and continue to add Cycle on a regular basis.

Cycle will help keep your ammonia and nitrite levels lower while speeding up the Nitrogen Cycle.

Thank you,
Sharon Emond, Customer Service Dept.
Rolf C. Hagen (USA) Corp.

 

[rdd1952]

I'd say their booklet is VERY misleading then. One could only assume that green is safe. They should state in the booklet exactly what they just told you in the email.