Converting From Tropical To The Salty Side

[Jibber_Angel]

Good Evening Folks,

I went to a fish shop today and finally decided that I'm going to give in and convert to the salty side , now I have spoken to the shop and they told me that basic's that I would need to convert the tank from Tropical to Marine. I would also like to get to some more advice on if this is correct with regards to the below list.

Here is the list that I have been told that I would need as a basic starting point

1)External Filter - Already have one running in the tank? Can I use this in the marine? I am also going to use my Fluval Canister.
2)Marine sand - What brand should I use?
3)Salt
4)refractometer
5)Marine white light

I don't really want to use live rock in this tank as it is something that would require alot from me as a first timer I think (that's my own option). I have been looking at using Ocean Rock in the tank for the fish, seen some on Fleabay for £40 for 25kg is that ok to use in the tank?

With cycling the tank is it different to Freshwater and Cold water tanks? I am going to buy a step by step booking on setting up a marine tank as well.

Any help on this would be much appreicated.

Thank you

Jemma

 

[bollands]

ok ocean rock is dead it will have no filtration purposes hense its cheap price, id try to get as much live rock in there as possible, if not id recommend live sand at least u may have a bit of bacteria in there! however if u do use LR then go for plain aragonite sand. (cheaper) id try to achieve for fish only at least 10-12 times flow rate than the capacity of the tank so you may need a powerhead (koralia) How big is your tank atm?

Cycling is similar to tropical tanks but id get cured live rock as it speeds it up!

Also please dont use fish to cycle the tank!

 

[Jibber_Angel]

Hi,

My tank is around 110 litres. I don't want to use live rock as i wouldn't be able to have the correct lighting unit in there, I would have to buy a whole new set up. At the moment i just want to do the basic set up hence using ocean rock etc. I don't plan to cycle with fish in the tank.

My sound like a stupid question but when you say live sand, how would I buy that is it normal sand that is sold in a fish shop?

With power heads i have been looking into one that i have seen on ebay.

Thank you

Jemma

 

[rabbut]

Oh, very old school recommendations from your shop there. That set-up can work for a select few marine fish but it will severely limit your options if you follow that method. Corals and Anemone's would be very un-likely to do well in there, as are any fish that are specialist feeders or fussy about water quality... That's the system people were using for marines about 5 years ago, and back then people thought marines were hard to keep, mainly as they were too ignorant to realise that a freshwater set-up with added salt isn't meeting the needs of most fish that they were choosing to keep (or should that be kill? ).

Be careful about buying books. If it was originally published inside the last 5 years it will likely be OK, but if it's only been edited in that time, and/or originally published longer ago than that, it's information and advice is going to be mostly out-of-date. The marine hobby moves at a fast pace, a year out of it will leave you with a lot of catching up on the latest methods to do... None the less, the old methods are interesting to read about for two reasons; Seeing how not to do it, and how we go to the current, most modern approaches.

What I'd recommend you do, it read around the pinned threads, here in Marine Chat and in the Nano-Reefs section, to pick-up the basics. Then venture out into the web in general to get other views from other sources. As you collate questions, shoot them at us here so we can help you. The only daft question is the one that went un-asked after all Remember, we don't bite (all that often )

Once you have an idea of the modern methods, you'll then be able to decide if you are going to be able to have a good go at keeping marines. At this point, you need to get more specific about your own system, re. hardware and set-up For this I'd suggest you read though as many of the Journals here as you can, and collate a list of the stock you'd like to keep, both coral, invert and fish-wise. From there, you can get a final stocking plan, and from that we can tell you the exact set-up style/ideology and hardware set-up that you are going to need to have the best go at keeping marines.

I know that's a lot of reading to do, but doing a lot of reading and doing it right is cheaper and kills less fish than setting it up wrong though lack of research and then suffering heavy stock losses. Remember though, though it all, those that say marines are hard to keep are usually those that were too ignorant to bet off there backsides to research if they had a go recently, or are stuck with the old methods if they kept marines a long time ago

Now for a miss-conception correction, as it seems your shop has given you the wrong idea with the set-up you require here;

Live rock does not require light You only need light to view the fish, or if you which to keep corals...

Live sand is mostly dead marine invertebrates. Contrary to what Bollards suggests, it may actually hinder a new set-up, releasing a lot of waste into your tank, leading to algae blooms (usually Cyno, but can be diatoms as well) e.t.c Think of live sand as "live bacteria in a bottle" products from your freshwater times and you won't go far wrong. It was live when collected and packaged, but since the contents have died off in transit and with several months sat in a how-stuffy warehouse, and on shop shelves... Get plain argonite sand, it will do the job needed, without the die-off and without the over-inflated price tag

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Jibber_Angel]

Thanks for all the info there. I have ordered myself 2 marine set up books that were recommend in a thread on here.

With regards to fish stock I really just want to go for plan and easy fish for my first time as I don't have the biggest tank in the world nor the smallest tank either. I was looking at the following

2x clown fish
1x turbo snails
2x Dwarf angels for now
Hermits
1x box fish

Fish along them line is what i like, I'm fully aware that alot of fish i can't keep as the size that they would grow to, as well as some can't live with each other.

I know that is very little socking but it what I think I could handle for now. Now I do like the sea horse but I'm sure if I'm correct that they need a mature tank to live (as well as the price tag )

With regards to items to run the tank I have made a massive list with price cost etc as to what I think I need, any help on what else i might need would be helpfu.

List so far

2x filters - both external, one is a canister
1x power head - looking at 1000l p/h - would that be enough
1x UV steriliser
1x heater
4x Bags of sand
Rock - still put off about live rock - scared would kill it
Fish - After cycle
1x refractometer
Salt
1x Marine White light - This you could use to keep live rock?


I am going to be shutting down my tropical tank at end of October to get it ready for marine, as the cycle along will take me around 3-4 weeks maybe longer. I have been looking at marine for a long time I have always just been scared and heard horror story I guess you could say. Now I have decided to give it go, but if I don't do it soon, I never will I guess.

With the rock alot of tank I see have a hell of alot of live rock/coral etc is that always the case or could i have a little bit to start off with and build it up?

Thank you

Jemma

 

[Truck]

Thanks for all the info there. I have ordered myself 2 marine set up books that were recommend in a thread on here.

With regards to fish stock I really just want to go for plan and easy fish for my first time as I don't have the biggest tank in the world nor the smallest tank either. I was looking at the following

2x clown fish
1x turbo snails
2x Dwarf angels for now

I know that is very little socking but it what I think I could handle for now. Now I do like the sea horse but I'm sure if I'm correct that they need a mature tank to live (as well as the price tag )

With regards to items to run the tank I have made a massive list with price cost etc as to what I think I need, any help on what else i might need would be helpfu.

List so far

2x filters - both external, one is a canister
1x power head - looking at 1000l p/h - would that be enough
1x UV steriliser
1x heater
4x Bags of sand
Rock - still put off about live rock - scared would kill it
Fish - After cycle
1x refractometer
Salt
1x Marine White light - This you could use to keep live rock?


I am going to be shutting down my tropical tank at end of October to get it ready for marine, as the cycle along will take me around 3-4 weeks maybe longer. I have been looking at marine for a long time I have always just been scared and heard horror story I guess you could say. Now I have decided to give it go, but if I don't do it soon, I never will I guess.

With the rock alot of tank I see have a hell of alot of live rock/coral etc is that always the case or could i have a little bit to start off with and build it up?

Thank you

Jemma

the filters will need cleaning out every week or they will become nitrate factories.
you would need about 11KG of rock so your looking at £60 from a breakdown reefer
you will need two power heads that kick out 1000lph each
you dont need a UV
You dont need to upgrade the lighting if you want just fish
you will need about 8kg of sand for 110 litres

the cycle will take about 1-2 weeks after the rock is added.

the rock will stay live as long as it has circulation

 

[Jibber_Angel]

Thanks for all the info there. I have ordered myself 2 marine set up books that were recommend in a thread on here.

With regards to fish stock I really just want to go for plan and easy fish for my first time as I don't have the biggest tank in the world nor the smallest tank either. I was looking at the following

2x clown fish
1x turbo snails
2x Dwarf angels for now

I know that is very little socking but it what I think I could handle for now. Now I do like the sea horse but I'm sure if I'm correct that they need a mature tank to live (as well as the price tag )

With regards to items to run the tank I have made a massive list with price cost etc as to what I think I need, any help on what else i might need would be helpfu.

List so far

2x filters - both external, one is a canister
1x power head - looking at 1000l p/h - would that be enough
1x UV steriliser
1x heater
4x Bags of sand
Rock - still put off about live rock - scared would kill it
Fish - After cycle
1x refractometer
Salt
1x Marine White light - This you could use to keep live rock?


I am going to be shutting down my tropical tank at end of October to get it ready for marine, as the cycle along will take me around 3-4 weeks maybe longer. I have been looking at marine for a long time I have always just been scared and heard horror story I guess you could say. Now I have decided to give it go, but if I don't do it soon, I never will I guess.

With the rock alot of tank I see have a hell of alot of live rock/coral etc is that always the case or could i have a little bit to start off with and build it up?

Thank you

Jemma

the filters will need cleaning out every week or they will become nitrate factories.
you would need about 11KG of rock so your looking at £60 from a breakdown reefer
you will need two power heads that kick out 1000lph each
you dont need a UV
You dont need to upgrade the lighting if you want just fish
you will need about 8kg of sand for 110 litres

the cycle will take about 1-2 weeks after the rock is added.

the rock will stay live as long as it has circulation

As in 11kg of live rock? If i decide not to use live rock can i still use ocean rock?Its just that i haven't seen that much live rock around, and the fish shop prices are very high! With regards to filters do i need to change the sponges or just clean them out etc in there own tank when, when you do a water change, i don't mean into the tank i mean into the buckets?

Also don't you need cooling fans with live rock in the tank? So if I could just run a marine white light with just fish and live rock? Can I still use argonite sand with live rock?

Sorry for all the questions its just that so far many people have different ways of doing it.

 

[Truck]

yes 11kg of live rock

ocean rock is not live but will be eventually but it takes ages, its easier to get it live from the start, look around on ebay and other forums for people selling live rock.

when you maintain the filter you will need to squeeze the sponges in old tank water and clean the pipes and all components to remove detritus.
You dont need cooling fans for live rock, if the tank already has lights its fine to use them!

argonite sand is fine

 

[Jibber_Angel]

OK thank you.

I will still have to change light as its a tropical light in there at the moment for the Tropical fish. Could i mix both live rock and ocean rock if i can't get enough live rock?

With regards to the filters is there any other way of doing it, other then cleaning once a week like you said?

Thank you

 

[Truck]

the tropical light is fine.

i cant answer the ocean/live rock mix question.

If you went all live rock you wouldnt need a filter, you would just need a way of getting phosphate remover into the tank by the means of a box that hangs on the side of the tank and then a pump flows water over it

 

[rabbut]

While short and not really giving reasons for why, I'd agree with most of Trucks advise. If you are going fish only though, you'd get away with two pumps pushing 500lph, without external filters (I'd argue most set-up's are better off without them, due to them being high-maintenance, unless you are filling them with live rock rubble and chemical media like Phosban/Rowaphos/Carbon only, i.e. no sponges or floss to require regular cleanings...). This said, if you can add two 1000lph pumps, that would be better. You never want to run with one lone pump, as if it fails, you end up with a crashed tank...

Some Dwarf angels will require live rock to do well, in fact I'd suggest most of them, as dwarf angels really are picky about their water... Angels are fairly high waste, so in a 110l tank, a pair of clowns and two dwarf angels would probably be your lot re. stocking... Most angels will nip at corals also, so you'd ideally be going FOWLR in your set-up (Or fish only with live rock to un-gargonify it)

Instead of the filters (I'd suggest you sell them to get extra cash for what I'm about to suggest you buy), I'd run a sizeable Protein Skimmer to keep on top of Nitrates and Phosphates

4 bags of sand sounds like far too much, depending on the sized bags you get. As Truck says, 6-8kg would be ample. Agronite sand is fine with LR, and actually still preferable to most other types of sand

A UV is only needed if your husbandry isn't up to scratch. To be frank, anyone that says a UV is essential to marine fish health doesn't know what they are talking about and their advise probably can't be trusted...

The lighting you have will be fine for the live stock you have planned, and for Live rock

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Jibber_Angel]

With the protein skimmer that is all in hand, my partner go out to America very year so i am looking at getting some items from america like i did with my tropical tank . The items are half the price and just as good.

I will keep my filters for the mean time as i already have been selling item to fund for the marine tank and been looking on ebay for loads of items as well. If i wasn't to stock angels in there, what else could i stock in there?

I have already just ordered to power heads of ebay they should be in here in the next week or so.

Thank you for the advice

Jemma

 

[rabbut]

Well, depends what other stock takes your fancy... Really, there isn't going to be loads of fish going into a 110l tank, you'd be looking at 6ish low-waste fish as a sensible maximum. Angels not really being low-waste are usually considered as two fish. Some angle species can put as much waste into a tank as a marine pred like a lion fish of the same size on large feeding's...

All the best
Rabbut