Confusion regarding pairs and how to stock

[Oli]

Hi guys, looking to stock a 200 litre and I wanted some relatively large fish so I think I’ve settled on Cichlids.

After researching for weeks I’m still very confused on the best way to go about stocking as the main thing I’ve read about is that many of these fish will “pair off” and then become aggressive and apparently they are hard to sex while young. I am interested mainly in Electric Blue Acaras, Angelfish and Discus but would be open to advice if anyone has better recommendations.

Anyway the main thing I’m confused about is would it be best to…

1.) Buy 2 of each fish. That way I will end up with either 2 males, 2 females or a pair. E.g. 2 blue Acaras and 2 angelfish.

2.) Buy 1 of each fish. E.g. 1 blue Acara, 1 angelfish, maybe 1 of another type of cichlid.

3.) Pick a species and stick to it. E.g. 4 Blue Acaras.

I am not interested in breeding and am simply looking for the easiest way to stock a fish tank with the species I am interested in. I don’t like the idea of buying a load of these fish and waiting for them to pair off and then returning the rest.

 

[Colin_T]

What are the tank dimensions (length x width x height)?

What is the GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness) and pH of your water supply?
This information can usually be obtained from your water supply company's website or by telephoning them. If they can't help you, take a glass full of tap water to the local pet shop and get them to test it for you. Write the results down (in numbers) when they do the tests. And ask them what the results are in (eg: ppm, dGH, or something else).

Discus and angelfish come from soft water with a GH below 100ppm and a pH below 7.0. The pH isn't as much of an issue for captive angelfish but most discus are kept and bred in very soft, acid water (pH below 7.0, GH below 50ppm). If you have hard water, you will need to reduce the GH if you plan on keeping these species.

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How long have you had fish for?
Do you have much experience in fish keeping?

I ask because discus are not really a beginners fish and are generally not the easiest to keep unless you get good quality fish. They also don't do well with other cichlids unless the tank is huge. A minimum size tank for one pair of discus is 4 foot long x 2 foot wide x2 foot high.

Depending on tank size, if you didn't want to breed fish and only wanted show fish, then buy one of each species and add them all to the tank at the same time. Try to get fish that are the same (or similar) size and require the same water conditions. By adding them all at the same time, and getting young fish, they can grow up together and hopefully get along better.

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If you do get discus, try to buy fish that are 3-4 inches in diameter. These are young but big enough to tolerate being shipped around the world and moved into new tanks.

Smaller discus suffer immensely and little discus that are 1-2 inches long usually die within a month of being moved.

Bigger discus (6+ inches diameter) can be bought but they are sexually mature and tend to stress when moved.

 

[Wills]

Hi Oil Sounds like a great set up you have planned.

You've picked 3 groups of fish that would do better in different types of tank. The Angels and Discus would all do well in big groups of 6 or more but I wouldnt pick them to go into a 200 litre as they could really do to be a bigger tank, they would probably be fine but to get the best out of them and a better chance of success you'd want to be closer to the 300 litre mark.

The Electric Blue Acaras could be the best choice but by no means do you have to keep them in pairs but you could or you could probably have a small group in your tank. So from your list I think option 2 or 3 would be best but you need to pick the other cichlids accordingly. Like Colin said it would be good to know how hard your water is, Blue Acaras are a South American fish so do best in soft water so tank mates would be things like Rotkiel Severums, Krobia Xinguensis or you could look at some of the dwarfs like Laetacara, Apistogramma, Cupid Cichlids. But if you have harder water you could look at Central American cichlids like Nicaraguans, Honduran Red Points, Sajica, Firemouths, Ellioti.

In either set up you need to think of it as a community and have your cichlids (depending on species I'd say 3-4) but also a school of dither fish to give them confidence and distract them from too much aggression towards each other. South Americans have loads of options with tetras, headstanders, hatchet fish etc but the Central Americans do better with Rainbow Fish and Live Bearers. Some bottom dwellers will really help keep the substrate tidy (though you can just use a well positioned powerhead) in a South American tank Cory cats or their relatives like Flagtails or Hoplos are great but there are loads of other options like wood catfish or pictus types, with Central Americans you need to look further afield and think about something like a Synodontis.

Wills

 

[GaryE]

@Wills covered it well. I'd add from sad experience that if you take a flier on buying two - if you get two females, you're probably okay. Two males, and one will be killed.

 

[Oli]

H

Hi Oil Sounds like a great set up you have planned.

You've picked 3 groups of fish that would do better in different types of tank. The Angels and Discus would all do well in big groups of 6 or more but I wouldnt pick them to go into a 200 litre as they could really do to be a bigger tank, they would probably be fine but to get the best out of them and a better chance of success you'd want to be closer to the 300 litre mark.

The Electric Blue Acaras could be the best choice but by no means do you have to keep them in pairs but you could or you could probably have a small group in your tank. So from your list I think option 2 or 3 would be best but you need to pick the other cichlids accordingly. Like Colin said it would be good to know how hard your water is, Blue Acaras are a South American fish so do best in soft water so tank mates would be things like Rotkiel Severums, Krobia Xinguensis or you could look at some of the dwarfs like Laetacara, Apistogramma, Cupid Cichlids. But if you have harder water you could look at Central American cichlids like Nicaraguans, Honduran Red Points, Sajica, Firemouths, Ellioti.

In either set up you need to think of it as a community and have your cichlids (depending on species I'd say 3-4) but also a school of dither fish to give them confidence and distract them from too much aggression towards each other. South Americans have loads of options with tetras, headstanders, hatchet fish etc but the Central Americans do better with Rainbow Fish and Live Bearers. Some bottom dwellers will really help keep the substrate tidy (though you can just use a well positioned powerhead) in a South American tank Cory cats or their relatives like Flagtails or Hoplos are great but there are loads of other options like wood catfish or pictus types, with Central Americans you need to look further afield and think about something like a Synodontis.

Will

 

[Oli]

@Wills
Hi wills,
Thanks for the info! So if I were to go ahead and say do 4 Blue Acaras as well as some larger tetras and bottom dwellers does this sound like a good option?

If I were to end up with say 4 males or if 2 of them paired off, would there then be any problems with aggression. For example if 2 paired off, would they be aggressive with the other 2. Or if I happened to end up with 3 males and a female, would the female be picked on?

Also would I be best off adding the Acaras first followed by the smaller fish, or the other way round?
Thanks for the help!

 

[Colin_T]

If you get a pr of any cichlid, they will argue and fight with other cichlids in the tank when they start breeding.

If you are going to keep smaller tetras with cichlids, add the cichlids last so the other fish can settle in. If you have the cichlids in the tank and add small dither fish, the small fish sometimes get eaten.

 

[Wills]

We had an other member @Guyb93 who kept EBAs like this and was pretty successful I think a group of youngsters raised together would have a good chance of living together but you might need to be prepared to have just the pair of you need to.

What other fish are you thinking of if you are able get a good mix of the variety that South American fish offer like headstanders and hatchet fish. A good disk tetra would be good in here like lemons or flame tetras.

Wills

 

[Oli]

@Wills

Hi Wills,

Honestly I haven’t looked too much at the smaller fish that will fill the tank, my main concern was deciding on the large centre piece fish I wanted. Essentially I want 4/5 “big” fish to stand out and then a few schools of smaller ones to fill the tank. So best of getting 4/5 blue Acaras as youngsters and there’s a chance they will grow up happy together???

 

[Wills]

@Wills

Hi Wills,

Honestly I haven’t looked too much at the smaller fish that will fill the tank, my main concern was deciding on the large centre piece fish I wanted. Essentially I want 4/5 “big” fish to stand out and then a few schools of smaller ones to fill the tank. So best of getting 4/5 blue Acaras as youngsters and there’s a chance they will grow up happy together???

Yes there is a good chance of that happening but if they are part of a community with the schools of other fish the tank dynamic is more likely to work as the cichlids will have more confidence and any aggression will be distributed towards more fish.

Going with a group like EBA's though you do run the risk of having a dominant pair. Starting with a group of 5 will certainly help though as you should get a group dynamic with them but its not guaranteed.

Wills

 

[Oli]

Hi guys thanks for the response,

Been researching for a couple months now so just want to make sure I get this right. I guess the plan I think I’ll go with is 4/5 electric blue Acaras as my showpiece fish, and no other cichlids. I will buy them young and hopefully they will grow up peacefully, but I guess this depends on the sexes I get and I will cross that road when I reach if. From your responses, it seems like I am now best deciding on some schooling fish to boost up the tank, and that is something I’ve not yet to look at or think about.

I will look more into suitable tank mates later, but if anyone can just confirm this is a good way to go about things that’s be great!

Also I imagine it’s unlikely, but while I’m here, would Cherry Barbs work in a big school as I’m a big fan of them!

Thanks guys,

 

[Colin_T]

I wouldn't put cherry barbs or any small narrow fish with blue acaras because they could get eaten.

 

[itiwhetu]

If you are going to do Cichlids, choose the one you like and have a single species tank. Start with six fish and let them sort things out, they will. Don't confuse them. I love Severums.

Mum, Dad and the kids plus two Jewel Cichlids in the background.

 

[Oli]

I am pretty set on Electric Blue Acaras, would they be suitable in a heavily planted tank? I know MD fish tanks did one in the following video but am reading conflicting information. If not I may go down the road of discus.

 

[Wills]

I am pretty set on Electric Blue Acaras, would they be suitable in a heavily planted tank? I know MD fish tanks did one in the following video but am reading conflicting information. If not I may go down the road of discus.

Yes they are good in a planted tank they will dig though so leave a big clear area of sand like the one in the video