community tank

[MaggieD]

I have a 20 gallon tank.

In it is a Rainbow shark
A female Golden Panchax (the male found a little hole and jumped out of the tank after 3 days)
2 cherry barbs
3 zebra danios

from what I have read these should be ok with each other but the male cherry barb is chasing ererything and the rainbow shark is chasing the cherry barb and sometimes the other fish (it sneaks up and seems to attack).

There are also 12 plants in the tank therefore hiding places and I am currently soaking and boiling and soaking and boiling etc have been for about a week a piece of wood for a real hiding place for the shark. At the moment it is hiding in an amazon sword plant.

Will the bickering let up?
Have I chosen ok fish?
Are the numbers ok and can I add more?
If so how many and what do you suggest?

Thanks

 

[cichlidmaster]

What is the base dimensions of your 20 gallon??

Is it a 20 high (24x12x16) or a 20 long (30x12x12)??

Either tank size should allow you more fish. However the 20 long due to a larger base size would allow you to add a few more than the 20 high would.

Barbs do best in small groups I believe and this may be why the barb is chasing the other fish. The rainbow shark although not normally aggressive, can like any other fish do their fair share of chasing.

Perhaps you could add a few cherry barbs and see what happens.

CM

 

[MaggieD]

It is the 20 long.

Will try more barbs they are pretty anyway, does it matter if they are male or female?

If I add an algae eating fish as well will the shark have a go at it, right now it seems to be eating algae off all the plants, will this cause conflict due to competition?

And thanks

 

[CFC]

Get the golden panchax out of there!! They are a predatory fish that will eat your cherry barbs and danios and will kill them through aggression even if she cant fit them in her mouth,if you still had the male they would probably be gone already.They are very territorial and dont like sharing surface space with other fish,definately not a community fish,i have one that beats on a dwarf snakehead twice his size and i had to get rid of the female,she was too small to go in my main tank but slaughtered everything in any other tanks i put her in.

 

[Alia]

Hi, Maggie.

Since you're asking about adding fish, I'm wondering how mature your tank is? If you've set it up recently, you might want to take it slow and let the biology keep up with the amount of waste being generated. How long ago did you get these fish that you have now? It's possible that it hasn't quite caught up with them, yet. Do you test your water? I try to test mine every week.

That said, here is what I am thinking about your fish. Cat Fish knows fish, so I would follow his advice on the Panchax. I'm not so sure about the cherry barbs, however. CM also knows fish, and is right that barbs normally are better in groups, but I think cherry barbs are not normal barbs. I've read that they are shy, and also that they may stay in groups as juveniles but go off on their own as adults. I read recently that they like to be in pairs, one male/one female. They are easy to sex - the males are the pretty red ones, the females reddish-gold.

If you like the danios, you could add more of those -- you don't say what kind they are -- but be forewarned that they are also jumpers. I've lost several out the back of the tank. Pearl and long fin danios are especially pretty and look great in groups.

If you add any bottom dwellers, make sure you do it while your shark is still young so it can adjust to sharing. I wouldn't get an algae eater, esp. not a big one (some get really big) -- how about a snail? Mystery snails are supposed to be easier to control, population-wise.

I think I would be looking to fill the middle with something colorful, like a Paradise Fish, a betta, or a couple of dwarf gouramis although you don't have that much height. . Just remember 1" of slim-bodied adult fish size per gallon of water is the rule of thumb, which you can tinker with by getting fish that inhabit different levels, increasing filtration and being vigilant about vaacuuming.

HTH, Maggie, happy aquarium!

 

[MaggieD]

This is the 6th week the tank has been up and running. 2 weeks with nothing, then I added the rainbow shark and 2 panchax (one jumped), week 4 I added the Zebra danios (1 long finned and 2 not) and I added 2 cherry barbs a few days ago. Does this sound ok?
I take my water to my LFS they test it for me. My only problem so far has been pH but I am getting it under control.

I have a pair of cherry barbs and the female is quite placid but the male is feisty and it is NOT scared of the rainbow shark (5 times its size). Somebody said try adding more of them it might take the attention off the other fish, what do you think?

I also think clown loaches are very cute. Would they survive in my tank I hear they are really shy.

I got told the shark and danios would nip a bettas fins.

My tank has about 17 inches in height worth of water. It is 30by 19 (but has a couple of inches of pebbles on bottom)by 13.

At the moment my panchax seems extremely placid keeping to herself and running away from the other fish. Can I risk leaving her or will she suddenly become agressive.

Thanks Again
MD

 

[CFC]

The clown loaches will eventually require a bigger tank than a 20 long,they get to 12" but can take a very long time to get there,they also need to be kept in groups of at least 3 so this needs to be taken into account as well.
Barbs do better in large groups,with cherrys i would recomend at least 6 which should make them leave the other fish alone and concentrate on each other.
How big is the panchax?Females get to around 2 and half to 3 inches and have a kind of flip top head which allows them to eat food up to half there own length,i have seen a female reduce a male guppy to a soggy mess in a few seconds,you may be lucky and have a placid one,fish like other animals can have different personalities but they are a predator and should be treated as one.

 

[Alia]

I don't want to argue with anyone, especially not someone as knowledgeable as Cat Fish, but everything I have read about Cherry barbs puts them in a different class than other barbs, like tiger barbs, which travel aggressively and in packs.

I'm going to give you a link which describes them as "loners", "best in pairs", "timid of their own species" and "peaceful". This is the same type of info I have seen in books and elsewhere on the net.

I have two males, and as I said before, took them out of a tank with tetras because they were hiding all the time. Could be your male is an exception, that certainly happens, but I feel you should have all the info you can get before you buy yourself a "school" of loner fish.

Anyway, here is the link: Cherry Barb

and here is a passage from another source:

An excellent beginners fish. The male will turn cherry red when ready to spawn, hence the name Cherry Barb. A small peaceful easy to spawn fish. Peaceful loner fish that do not prefer to school with their own. Will mix well with other similar sized fish. There is a misconception that all the members of the Barb Family are aggressive towards other tank mates. Cherry Barbs are a very passive barb that do not harass the other fish and tends to stick to themselves in the aquarium.

On water quality, does the lfs tell you what your readings are? How are you getting your pH "under control", and what is it that it needs that?

Certain fish need water that is more or less acidic, but for the most part I think that beginners are advised to buy hardy fish that are acclimated to a pH similar to their own in community tanks, due to the difficulty of maintaining a pH that is higher or lower than that of your tap water. Of course, stores are anxious to sell things, and they have many products for changing pH levels -- I'm just saying it is tricky to keep adjusting it every time you do a water change. Do you have a certain fish you are accomodating?

True, a betta or Paradise Fish might get harassed in your tank. Gouramis would probably fair better. I'd say dwarfs, though, or honey gouramis for the smaller size. Clown loaches are "cute", but if you aren't already thinking about a bigger tank for them, maybe you could get some cory cats or kuhli loaches instead? Corys are also cute (and stay small) and are available in many varieties. Look here for pics:

Fish Profiles

 

[MaggieD]

Thanks Alia......
I think I know where the signs of aggression from my cherry barb came from.......today I cleaned my tank and half way through cleaning my male and female cherries got a bit frisky......
lets put it this way....she was pregnant and he was bright red......I think the day I chose them I chose the biggest female and the reddest male.....I think he saw the rainbow shark as some kind of competition....
This is the first time I have seen fish mate and it is amazing every now and then you see an egg drop.
About the water...I got a pH test kit it says my water is about 7.6 but that is as high as it goes and according to the lfs it is about 8 because that is tap our water pH.....It is annoying having to fix the pH.....which I have been adding sodium biphosphate to make more acidic. But I have to add alot and it doesn't do much only to be faced with the same prob every tank clean. the fish are surviving the alkaline conditions will they continue to do so, will they still live long and healthy I don't want sick fish. If I consider to change fish which ones like water so alkaline.....no certain fish just the ones above.....

On the Clown loaches I do want a bigger tank eventually but I may wait to get them, will look at other fish.

And thanks you have been very helpful.....I think everyone seems to be.....

 

[Alia]

Wow, Maggie, Cherry Babies! That is so cool! I think you are absolutely right, and that is why your male was feisty! Does the tank have lots of plants (real or other) for them to get some privacy in? I can't wait to hear if the eggs hatch and what happens next.

Here are three links to pages about your other fish:

Rainbow Shark

Zebra Danio

Golden Panchax

From what I gathered in skimming these, your killifish (the Panchax) is the only one likely to be really bothered by your high pH. Killifish like their water on the acidic side. It also confirms that she is a predator and a jumper. If you keep her, you might want to get another male to keep her company.

Then again, you might want to get something that can tolerate your pH better. They will breed (in soft, acidic water), but they will also eat the fry (and your other fry too). Floating plants sometimes help livebearer fry survive, but eggs are probably doomed unless you remove them to a fry tank.

I did read elsewhere MongoBay that

Rosler states in Tropical Fish Hobbyist (#460 on p. 110-14) that in his experiences with A. lineatus , he has combined small fish such as tetras in the same tank. He suggests that Panchax only attack sick or weak fish in the aquarium, and healthy fish are safe.

but that was not CFC's experience at all, so you'll be taking your chances.


If you don't mind my asking, what is most important to you in keeping this tank? It sounds like you just want to enjoy a nice group of community fish, without an extraordinary amount of bother. If that is the case, the Panchax might be the best fish to remove, although I would also keep my eye on the shark. This profile says it is very aggressive.

Good luck, and keep us posted on those cherry barb eggs!

 

[MaggieD]

Lots of plants yes and when the tannin leaks out of the log (oneday, its taking ages have even boiled it) then they will have that to.

I would love to remove the eggs but......the standing joke between myself and other half is......male cherry: "come over here lets do it here" 2 secs later "and this leaf this ones good to" 2 secs later "woo hoo look another leaf"......heh I swear they went from one side of the tank to the other and every now and then you would see a tiny little egg float down to the gravel. I don't think we will get any babies....the only way would be not to clean the gravel and that is kinda important.....I think we will buy a baby tank, heater etc and next time they get in the mood move them.

I am keeping an eye on the shark and panchax removal is an option. then I will think about some different fish maybe that you suggested.....

I read that the eggs usually hatch within 24 to 30 hours....but if the female is not removed then after slimming from laying egges.....she will still appear quite fat.....mine does I assume this is because she ate the eggs. Maybe next time.....

by for now

 

[Alia]

Sounds like you have it all figured out, then. Nice chatting -- Good luck to you!

 

[Jamnog]

allot of fish jump when newly introduced to a tank to clear their gills esp. imported fish. a slime residue apparently forms over their gills in transit. also some tanks can offer an imbalance in the levals of co2 and oxigen (tho i dont think that is the case here) this also causes some types of fish to ither jump or break the surface. the moral of the story is when your not at the tank keep the lid closed and for the holes at the back its a good idea to try and seal them a bit with somekind of tape or even just a bit of foam or something. dont everyone go mad about it as its a rare occourance in my experience but one worth considering.