Clown Loach Preperation

[Coomon10]

Hello to everyone!

First post...

Tomorrow i plan to buy a quarantine tank, with the primary aim being to introduce some clown loaches into my current (260l) tank. After suitably 'cycling' the new tank and allowing it a little time to 'mature', my questions are:
1. I plan to have 4 loaches, is it best to buy (and therefore introduce) them 2 at a time or 4 at once (to both tanks)?
2. Is there a 'better' size to buy? (in terms of them successfully acclimatising to the tanks)
3. After checking they are ok and feeding well etc i need to move them into the other tank. Although i will have prepared some hiding places etc this is likely to be stressful for the loaches. Is this not going to make them susceptible to disease etc all over again and nullify the 'good work' of the quarantine tank?
4. I have a red tailed black shark. I believe this can be territorial, am i likely to have problems?
5. When changing the water i normally check to make sure it is ~2 degrees of the tank temperature, will even this slight a difference cause the loaches a problem?

I know there are a few questions there but i really want to make my attempts with these somewhat difficult customers to be a success!

TIA

 

[Liam]

1, they feel and do better in groups, so I would get and keep them all together.
2, when I got them I got them very small they weren’t two inches, they did fine in a tank a little bigger than yours, four years later they were of varied sizes, the biggest was eight inches the smallest 5. They grow faster than I expected and I had to give them away to a friend with a seriously big tank. They were just too big for the tank. I guess as you have the bala, having at least one of them as big as it would be a good idea.
3, they won’t be too stressed the water will be the same and they will be together. I would still quarantine them. If they are going into a disease free tank with good water quality they will settle in a day or two. The hiding places are great for them you will see more of them once they can hide.
4 I have not kept a bala so I don’t know how territorial they are. If it has a place in the middle of the tank that it hangs out that has wood or movable stuff you could move it to one end of the and put the loach hideouts at the other end.
5, I didn’t give this any thought when I kept them. I usually put a heater in the bucket of new water so its the same temp. They will come ‘running’ into the flow of the new water.

Sounds like you will give them a good home. They are really tough if the tank is cycled and the water clean, I had them in really hard water and when I got an ro unit in really soft water, they did fine in both. They are great fish, funny, interesting and peaceful.
Hope all goes well with them.
PS welcome to the forum am new here myself.

 

[mikev]

Good advice above.

Let me add a little more, since you obviously care.

On disease:
while Clown loaches are pretty stable (in an established stable tank), there are two common problems to anticipate.

Firstly, Ich. Read on it and watch for signs, for at least a week. Treating in a quarantine tank is much easier, and you also will be able to observe them better, so you can see the problem and treat faster.---if you have to.

Secondly, internal parasites. About a third of loaches come with worms inside, and the effect may not be seen immediately. Instead, weeks or months later, you may have growth problems or the so called "Wasting disease". Thus, deworm preventively, in the Q-tank, you don't want to deal with the advanced disease later.

On tank:
Clowns do need lots of space, hopefully your tank is large enough. You'll certainly need at least a 55g within a year or two, even if you are starting with the smallest clowns. And you'll need a larger tank later. What you can have now depends on how large is your tank and how capable you are of upgrading it later on.

good luck; clowns are fun.

 

[Coomon10]

Good advice above.

Let me add a little more, since you obviously care.

On disease:
while Clown loaches are pretty stable (in an established stable tank), there are two common problems to anticipate.

Firstly, Ich. Read on it and watch for signs, for at least a week. Treating in a quarantine tank is much easier, and you also will be able to observe them better, so you can see the problem and treat faster.---if you have to.

Secondly, internal parasites. About a third of loaches come with worms inside, and the effect may not be seen immediately. Instead, weeks or months later, you may have growth problems or the so called "Wasting disease". Thus, deworm preventively, in the Q-tank, you don't want to deal with the advanced disease later.

On tank:
Clowns do need lots of space, hopefully your tank is large enough. You'll certainly need at least a 55g within a year or two, even if you are starting with the smallest clowns. And you'll need a larger tank later. What you can have now depends on how large is your tank and how capable you are of upgrading it later on.

good luck; clowns are fun.

Thank you very much for that invaluable info on the clowns.

One other loach related question i have... I am interested in Kuhli loaches and am going to scout the lfs's but would you advise putting them through the quarantine tank since I am a little worried they will be hard to catch to put back into the other tank (and subsequently stressful for all involved), plus I have a small stone substrate (not ideal i know!) rather than the more suitable sand in the main tank.

TIA

 

[kimmers318]

Secondly, internal parasites. About a third of loaches come with worms inside, and the effect may not be seen immediately. Instead, weeks or months later, you may have growth problems or the so called "Wasting disease". Thus, deworm preventively, in the Q-tank, you don't want to deal with the advanced disease later.

Any advice on this particular issue would be great for me! I have purchased 5 clowns total over the last year and every darn one of them died from what appeared to be the "wasting disease"....after being happy and healthy for months! It seemed everytime I tried to bring the numbers up to 3 I would lose one. I just recently found out about the wasting parasite issue, and the recommend med was levamisole (from loaches. com) which is not found around here without carting the fish to the vet an hour away, and even then the vet said he probably wouldn't prescribe that med since it is "too potent". I tried treating this last one with prazipro and although he seemed to be on the upswing for a few days (he hadn't started getting super skinny yet and was still eating a little, had just started becoming listless, which here anyways seems to be the first sign....I don't see a clown as often as usual and about a week later....gone) I still lost him.

I have read that it might be a good idea to purchase from somewhere that treats and Q's them first, which I doubt I am going to find around here, or to treat them myself. If I decide to try again what meds have you had success with....how long did you treat and Q....etc. I might be able to order the levamisole online if need be. I know the 2 local stores (petsuppliesplus and petsmart) both us SeGrest as their supplier, which 4 of the 5 clowns I had came from petsuppliesplus, so I am thinking SeGrest doesn't treat, or doesn't treat long enough, but then yesterday I saw some larger clowns (maybe 4-5inch) at Petsmart so apparently SOME of their loaches make it! If I do try again it will certainly be from another area and supplier...I am going to check with 2 private stores I know of that are about an hour away. The next batch will be Q'd in a 20 gal long for however long it takes to make sure they don't waste away on me! Thanks for any tips you can give a "hopeful" clown loach owner.

 

[mikev]

Secondly, internal parasites.
....
Any advice on this particular issue would be great for me! I have purchased 5 clowns total over the last year and every darn one of them died from what appeared to be the "wasting disease"....after being happy and healthy for months!

Sounds like you had worse luck than usual (5 out of 5) OR you are dealing with direct worms.
What other fish is there, any other unexplained deaths?

Regardless: forget about PraziPro. It handles *some* cases, but fewer than levimisole.
Get levimisole over the internet (I assume you are in the US, since you mentioned PetSmart), and treat ALL new fish you get. You don't want worms in your tank, ever, and Levimisole happens to be a very efficient and safe way to assure it.
You don't need a prescription for it, btw, and you are not likely to get it from a vet, not that you have to. "too potent" is BS. "Outdated" is the usual excuse you'd get, which is somewhat true: there are stronger meds out there now, for big animals...we don't know how safe they are with fish, or how to dose them, so levimisole remains the best choice.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

One note about levamisole, it will only work in water with a pH of 7 or less. It becomes ineffective any higher.

You can try Metronidazole treated food. feed it and nothing else 2x/day for 10-14 days. I have also been told by a very long term fish keeper that he had success with a wasting clown that was not eating by treating in a metro dip. He put the fish into a tank with double dose of metro in the water and let it stay there for a short time and then returned it to the main tank. I have never tried this.

The best worm med I have found is flubendazole. It is almost impossible to get and I hoard my meager supply.

 

[mikev]

One note about levamisole, it will only work in water with a pH of 7 or less. It becomes ineffective any higher.

Unclear if this is true.

There was an article in the May issue of one of the popular fishkeeping magazines on Levimisole treatments; it claimed that the Ph limitation is simply an urban legend. While I never tried levimisole at Ph > 7.0 (all my tanks are soft-water acidic anyway), I see no solid reason why this would be the case.

Metronidazole, flubendazole, etc are possible alternatives, but I've not yet heard of a case where levimisole failed against worms, so I personally stick to it.

 

[kimmers318]

Sounds like you had worse luck than usual (5 out of 5) OR you are dealing with direct worms.
What other fish is there, any other unexplained deaths?

Regardless: forget about PraziPro. It handles *some* cases, but fewer than levimisole.
Get levimisole over the internet (I assume you are in the US, since you mentioned PetSmart), and treat ALL new fish you get. You don't want worms in your tank, ever, and Levimisole happens to be a very efficient and safe way to assure it.
You don't need a prescription for it, btw, and you are not likely to get it from a vet, not that you have to. "too potent" is BS. "Outdated" is the usual excuse you'd get, which is somewhat true: there are stronger meds out there now, for big animals...we don't know how safe they are with fish, or how to dose them, so levimisole remains the best choice.
[/quote]

Yes, I am in the US. When I lost the first clown it was new, so accepted a loss on a new purchase. I was also a lot newer to the hobby, so I started doing more research....maybe it is my harder water I thought. I then spent months doing water changes slowly increasing the amount of RO to tap water until I had softened it and found the right mix. That didn't do it either! Clown loaches come home with me....do great for 2-3 months....out and about all the time....eating and playing. Then I will notice 1 not coming out as much, and low and behold the thing is getting skinnier, stops eating as much, although still eats and then I end up losing it. The last one I did try prazipro, no luck. If/when I decide to try again I will definitely treat with levamisole. I don't think there were any "fish friend" issues....corys, various tetras, and various small gourami's (honey, 1 dwarf, and sparkling) in a 36X18X24" tank. I haven't lost too many fish...mostly new purchases and otos. My husband and I both fell in love with clown loaches and he was waiting patiently for mine to get too big and have to go into a 90 gallon for him! I will keep all of this in mind for the future....Thanks!

 

[daspricey]

what are the dimensions of the tank?
remember clowns can easily grow to 14"+.
and in smaller spaces they become stunted, the bottom line is that the fishes life will be shortened.

david

 

[mikev]

The reason I've asked about the other fish is because what you are describing is consistent with a nematodic infection, but then you should have more deaths, particularly among bottom fish. Prazi btw does not do anything to nematodes at all.

daspricey is correct that you should ensure that the tank is large enough, but I doubt that even very crowded tank conditions would kill clowns quickly.

What are your other water parameters, incidentally? -- it sounds like you know what you are doing but still... The fact that you mentioned that oto's died may be an indication that something is wrong, otos are sensitive.