Cloudy Water - Algae

[darryl864]

I recently went on holiday for 2 weeks and had a friend drop in some feeder blocks whilst I was away. I put a rug over the tank so the only light coming in would be from the internal hood light (on a timer with 2 hour break). This was in the hope that the algae would not be too bad when I returned. When I came back I was pleased to see all fish alive and the tank looking in pretty good condition. Having missed a water change I did a 50% change and a good clean of the glass. All looked well.

However, three days later the water has started to go cloudy so I quickly did another 25% water change. This seems to have made things worse so I have been looking for some advice on the forum. I seem to be finding conflicting information. On the one hand people are saying that water changes are bad as this further increases the imbalance which caused the algae to grow. On the other hand others are saying that water changes are good as it removes the algae spores. Can anyone else help? Should I buy something to treat the algae?

Further information:
I tested the water and Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate are all 0.
30 Litre tank
4 - X-Ray Tetra
4 - Endlers
10-20 Cherry shrimp
Planted with Java moss, Java Fern & Amazon swords
Low light 8W (Recently added a reflector in an attempt to boost)

 

[Miss Wiggle]

hi Daryl, are you sure that the cloudy water is algae, it could also be a bacteria bloom. This could have been caused by the changes in feeding and waste production over your holidays.

What test kit are you using, it's unusual (although possible) to have 0 nitrate which makes me slightly dubious of the results.

Have you cleaned the filter since getting back?

 

[5teady_2012]

When you use the nitrate test (if liquid) make sure you shake bottle 2 up really really well or you will not get a acurate reading at all.

 

[darryl864]

hi Daryl, are you sure that the cloudy water is algae, it could also be a bacteria bloom. This could have been caused by the changes in feeding and waste production over your holidays.

What test kit are you using, it's unusual (although possible) to have 0 nitrate which makes me slightly dubious of the results.

Have you cleaned the filter since getting back?

I'm quite sure as I can see the algae on the glass, it waves around in the water. There is also a white film attached to the plants and is very noticeable on the Java Moss. I am using the API liquid test kit and have been told before to make sure I shake the bottle lots. I now shake it for nearly 5 minutes (vigorously) but still get a zero reading on Nitrate.

Yes I have cleaned the filter which is a sponge internal. Just squished out in the old water and popped back in. Nothing different than I do every week. Had the tank for 6 Months now.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

hi Daryl, are you sure that the cloudy water is algae, it could also be a bacteria bloom. This could have been caused by the changes in feeding and waste production over your holidays.

What test kit are you using, it's unusual (although possible) to have 0 nitrate which makes me slightly dubious of the results.

Have you cleaned the filter since getting back?

I'm quite sure as I can see the algae on the glass, it waves around in the water. There is also a white film attached to the plants and is very noticeable on the Java Moss. I am using the API liquid test kit and have been told before to make sure I shake the bottle lots. I now shake it for nearly 5 minutes (vigorously) but still get a zero reading on Nitrate.

Yes I have cleaned the filter which is a sponge internal. Just squished out in the old water and popped back in. Nothing different than I do every week. Had the tank for 6 Months now.

fair enough, just all worth checking.

algae growth is triggered by 3 things, ammonia, unstable CO2 levels and excess lighting. we know there is no more light than usual so we can exclude that, do you add any CO2 or Carbon supplements to the tank like flourish excel?

 

[darryl864]

fair enough, just all worth checking.

algae growth is triggered by 3 things, ammonia, unstable CO2 levels and excess lighting. we know there is no more light than usual so we can exclude that, do you add any CO2 or Carbon supplements to the tank like flourish excel?

I don't use any CO2 products but I did pop in some fertilizer (Tetra Liquid) after I did the water change. I'm not too good with the fertiliser and I usually just do it when I remember. I read that it was better to add a little and often so I don't add the stated dose on the bottle which would be 15ml for a 30 Litre tank.

Another thing is that I have recently cut down on the amount of food I give the fish as I wanted to get the shrimp to eat the algae and limit the amount of food available to the snail's. I also noticed that the fish were looking more active when they had less to eat (I.E. the 3 day feeding blocks)

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i would suggest inconsistent use of fertiliser is worse than no use at all tbh (although check this out with the guys in the planted tank forum who will know for sure) as I said before unstable CO2 is a prime cause of algae and i would suggest having unstable ferts going into the tank could cause the same thing.

do you use the holiday feeder blocks for your regular daily food source?

 

[waterdrop]

This just sounds like the typical algae problems that many of us beginners have who are not "planted tank" experienced (ie. we probably have unstable CO2 because we are using low light but no carbon supplements and not heavy enough planting to out-compete the algae for basic plant resources.) Add to that the complication of it being a small tank (less stable by definition) and then throw in the feeding blocks (which I always have the feeling throw in an unpredictable element to the equation...)

I think I remember us working with you Darryl on fishless cycling and I believe you had all the basic tank maintenance things well in hand (as covered above...)

In my own case, a good cleaning after holidays has set things right...

~~waterdrop~~

 

[darryl864]

do you use the holiday feeder blocks for your regular daily food source?

No I usually use flake food but when I got back from holiday there was still a large piece of feeding block in the tank so I left it in until I got around to cleaning. This is when I noticed that there was not much food available and the fish were more active. When I did clean the tank I just binned the block and went back to the Flake and bloodworm on occasions as a treat.

I might try not using the fertiliser for a while to see how things go.

Still no clearer on the water changes. Do I do a massive clean out. Or lower light levels and hope it goes away?

When do I have to start worrying about the health of the fish? Are they at risk already?

 

[gaz gun man]

you said the lights were on a timer with a 2 hour break, does that mean they've been on 22 hours a day whilst you've been away?

If so tha could've caused the algae to start growing

 

[Miss Wiggle]

do you use the holiday feeder blocks for your regular daily food source?

No I usually use flake food but when I got back from holiday there was still a large piece of feeding block in the tank so I left it in until I got around to cleaning. This is when I noticed that there was not much food available and the fish were more active. When I did clean the tank I just binned the block and went back to the Flake and bloodworm on occasions as a treat.

I might try not using the fertiliser for a while to see how things go.

Still no clearer on the water changes. Do I do a massive clean out. Or lower light levels and hope it goes away?

When do I have to start worrying about the health of the fish? Are they at risk already?

ah fair enough, as a word for the future the feeder blocks have been known to go wrong on many occasions, they can totally nuke you're tank. most community fish will be fine without any food for 2 weeks and generally that's a much better option than using the feeder blocks. or if you've someone who can come in then get them to just give a pinch of flake food or whatever you ususally use.

lethargy is a classic sign of overfeeding but quite a difficult one to spot, if you've noticed that with less food the fish are brighter and more active then it makes sense that they were probably lethargic and overfed before. A good test is at feeding time it should be a total frenzy, if you put food in and some fish aren't that bothered and don't rush around trying for food, then you are most likely feeding too much. So just cut back a bit and see what happens.

Basically with algae you need to determine the root cause of it, you can clean it off but if you make no long term changes then it will just come back. If you sucessfully determine the root cause of the problem and correct it then the algae will die back by itself. So yes feel free to give the tank a good scrub out, but make sure you try to work out why the algae came in the first place (i know this is what you are doing with this post) and make changes to sort it out.

I'm a little confused as to what you think the fish are at risk from? Algae won't harm them.

 

[leeh]

I recently went on holiday for 2 weeks and had a friend drop in some feeder blocks whilst I was away. I put a rug over the tank so the only light coming in would be from the internal hood light (on a timer with 2 hour break). This was in the hope that the algae would not be too bad when I returned. When I came back I was pleased to see all fish alive and the tank looking in pretty good condition. Having missed a water change I did a 50% change and a good clean of the glass. All looked well.

However, three days later the water has started to go cloudy so I quickly did another 25% water change. This seems to have made things worse so I have been looking for some advice on the forum. I seem to be finding conflicting information. On the one hand people are saying that water changes are bad as this further increases the imbalance which caused the algae to grow. On the other hand others are saying that water changes are good as it removes the algae spores. Can anyone else help? Should I buy something to treat the algae?

Further information:
I tested the water and Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate are all 0.
30 Litre tank
4 - X-Ray Tetra
4 - Endlers
10-20 Cherry shrimp
Planted with Java moss, Java Fern & Amazon swords
Low light 8W (Recently added a reflector in an attempt to boost)

Hi,

I would never do a 50% water change that is just to much, I would have just a done a 25% change which should be done about every 4/5 weeks,
Also sounds like the lights may be onto much. And covering with a rug is not a good idea the tank needs to breath. Also sounds like the tank is next to a window in direct sunlight?

What filteration system are you running?
Are you running a air pump with air stones to circulate the water around?

 

[aaronnorth]

first of all having the 2hr break will do nothing, it could be worst for your plants! Algae is more adaptable than plants. If it is an algae bloom, the water will be a green haze. If it is a bacteria bloom. It is a white haze. When it says little and often, it means like daily, or evry other day. The manafacurers instructions are for weekly so still dose what it says if you are going to stick to this. You can still dose the nutrients, they dont cause algae. water changes dont really work for an algae bloom. The easiest way is to get a UV steriliser or a diatom filter. A lot of this has been discussed in this thread - http/www.fishforums.net/content/Plants-a...Beat-The-Bloom/

The main course was probobaly an ammonia spike (from the feeding blocks) and this could of triggered it.

50% water change is fine. After doing a recape in my tank when i am distybing the substrate. I always do an 80% water change followed by a 50% w/c the next day to make sure i dont get algae. It is safe as most of the bacteria is in the substrate & filter

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Hi there leeh, welcome to the forum

I don't mean this to be a baptism of fire but i'm a little confused by some of your statements, can you please elaborate on them for me, I'm always willing to learn if you have good evidence to back up what you've said, but I'm afraid some of the statements go against accepted wisdom.

I would never do a 50% water change that is just to much,

firstly why is a 50% water change too much? The bacteria that we grow to keep our filters and tanks healthy do not live free swimming, they live attached to the filter media so swapping water around doesn't harm the bacteria in any way, what it does is reduces the pollutants in the water. The only time you should be wary of large water changes is if you have adjusted the levels in your tank like the pH where changing a large amount of water can cause the levels to fluctuate which can be dangerous, although even with this there is debate about the dangers as the pH will fluctuate in the wild in some circumstances like when it rains.

I would have just a done a 25% change which should be done about every 4/5 weeks,

while the maintenance routine will vary from tank to tank as there are a lot of variables the ballpark figure is to change 30% of the water every week, a 25% change once a month is very little maintenance indeed and could lead to the build up of pollutants and nitrate in the water

And covering with a rug is not a good idea the tank needs to breath.

yes the tank does need to get oxygen into it, but putting a rug over it is not going to form an airtight seal, certainly no more airtight than a standard aquarium hood don't you think?!

 

[aaronnorth]

Hi leeh, forgot to say i do 50% weekly anyway. Also airpumps dont circulate the water around, they just break the surafce and creat agitation which alows gaseous exchange.