Clamped Fins On Comet Goldfish

[crmpicco]

I am looking for some advice regarding clamped fins on my comet goldfish. He has been hiding with clamped fins for the past fortnight and he shows now signs of picking up.

I performed a 30% water change last night as I feared there could be water quality issues. When I changed the water I added AquaSafe to every bottle of water I added and when I finished I added a wee touch (inner capful) of Ammonia Remover.

Unfortunately, I don't have an API tester kit although I will be buying one of these soon. Due to the cold weather recently (and the fact that my house is generally cold) the water temperature has dropped a few degrees. I was normally around 17-20 degrees celsius, however it is now a few degrees lower - down at 13-15.

I have read that clamped fins and general "stressed-out" behaviour can be caused by water quality and/or water temperature, so i'm not sure what the best course of action is here. Should I raise the temperature as high as I can, maybe back up to the 20-mark? Also, should I do every-other-day 30% water changes? As I say, I changed 30% yesterday (Wednesday) so should I be doing another 30% on Friday?

Any help is appreciated as my fish has been looking sad for a fortnight or so now and I don't want him to fall ill or, worse die.

Cheers,
Picco

 

[crmpicco]

I am looking to buy an API kit online just now (if possible)

Do you think this API tester kit would suffice for what I want to test?

It doesn't say anything about coldwater - only freshwater? Does this matter?

 

[snazy]

I am looking to buy an API kit online just now (if possible)

Do you think this API tester kit would suffice for what I want to test?

It doesn't say anything about coldwater - only freshwater? Does this matter?

It doesn't matter whether it's cold or warm water and the test should be fine.

It contains tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, low scale Ph test and high scale Ph test

 

[crmpicco]

I am looking to buy an API kit online just now (if possible)

Do you think this API tester kit would suffice for what I want to test?

It doesn't say anything about coldwater - only freshwater? Does this matter?

It doesn't matter whether it's cold or warm water and the test should be fine.

It contains tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, low scale Ph test and high scale Ph test

Thanks, snazy.

I've just bought one of these and it should be here at the start of next week:
API kit

I have also raised the temperature gradually to around 20-22 degrees Celsius, is this a more suitable temperature? It was previously around 13-15.

Cheers.

 

[snazy]

I guess 20-22 is fine for them.
I went to Thailand on holidays and they had koi ponds as well as guppy ponds, temperature of the water about 29 degrees . I am wondering how do the koi survive in that heat

 

[crmpicco]

I guess 20-22 is fine for them.
I went to Thailand on holidays and they had koi ponds as well as guppy ponds, temperature of the water about 29 degrees . I am wondering how do the koi survive in that heat

Well, 20-22 degrees Celsius was recommended to me as it helps their digestive system...low temperatures hinders it apparently. Makes sense, really. What is the recommended temperature for fancy goldfish such as comets and shubunkins? I don't want to go too high, certainly i've got no plans to increase it from the current temperature.

Also, how to I maintain this temperature. I don't have a heater element so I am concerned that the water temperature will drop to align itself with room temperature. Is this likely to be the case?

WOW - 29 degrees? That seems WAY to high for goldfish surely.

Do you think I _need_ a heater? It is a coldwater tank after all and I have never needed a heater before.

I've just done my third daily water change in a row so i'm hoping that I will see a upturn in my goldie's health soon and that his fins will sort of open back up rather than being in the clamped state they are in just now. Is it recommended I keep up this daily water changes?

Thanks.

 

[crmpicco]

Hi,

I have now managed to get my water tested with my API freshwater test kit and these are the results:

pH - 7.6 (light blue and end of the scale)
pH (High Range) - 7.4 (tan colour and top of the scale)
Ammonia - 0.25ppm (light green and second in the scale)
Nitrite - 0ppm (light blue and top of scale)
Nitrate - 10ppm (light orange and third in scale)

Should I be concerned about any of these figures?

Do any of these figures point me in the direction of the reason for my fish suffering from clamped fins and showing "hiding" behaviour?

I should add that I haven't done a water change since Saturday/Sunday.

Thanks.

 

[snazy]

Great. This will help.

Ammonia and NitrIte should be 0.

NitrAte is the non-toxic part, but should be kept below 40-50 depending on fish, ideally 10-20 max.

How long do you have the goldfish for? A tank goes into a nitrogen cycle first, before it is able to process toxic ammonia and nitrIte. Also goldfish are very messy fish and you need good filtration for that.

Do a big water change, as much as you can to bring ammonia to 0 and then test the water. If it shows ammonia again, do another one straight. Then keep testing and change the water to keep ammonia and nitrites down.

You said nitrates are 10ppm. Test the tap water for nitrates and post the results. This will tell you if there is some type of conversion of ammonia->nitrItes->nitrAtes.

On another note, the API liquid test is a bit confusing on the 0 color. Look at the test from above. Do yo see a greenish tinge or all of it is yellow. I maybe color blind, but it did confuse me when I first used the API liquid test.

For example, test your tap water for ammonia. What's the color compared to the tank? Is your tap water supposed to have ammonia, etc... OAs you might just be reading it wrong.

 

[crmpicco]

Great. This will help.

Ammonia and NitrIte should be 0.

NitrAte is the non-toxic part, but should be kept below 40-50 depending on fish, ideally 10-20 max.

How long do you have the goldfish for? A tank goes into a nitrogen cycle first, before it is able to process toxic ammonia and nitrIte. Also goldfish are very messy fish and you need good filtration for that.

Do a big water change, as much as you can to bring ammonia to 0 and then test the water. If it shows ammonia again, do another one straight. Then keep testing and change the water to keep ammonia and nitrites down.

You said nitrates are 10ppm. Test the tap water for nitrates and post the results. This will tell you if there is some type of conversion of ammonia->nitrItes->nitrAtes.

On another note, the API liquid test is a bit confusing on the 0 color. Look at the test from above. Do yo see a greenish tinge or all of it is yellow. I maybe color blind, but it did confuse me when I first used the API liquid test.

For example, test your tap water for ammonia. What's the color compared to the tank? Is your tap water supposed to have ammonia, etc... OAs you might just be reading it wrong.

Hi snazy,

I will work to get the Ammonia level back down to zero. When should I next test?

The tank is 70ltrs (Hagen Tropiquarium 68) which has a filter on 24/7/365.

Currently, after the recent water change the temperature is 19 degrees celsius, however this will fall to between 13-15 approx. My goldfish is a comet (I believe), he's 5 y.o.

Just an update on this...i've just done a 50% water change on the tank and also added 12ml of Interpet Ammonia Remover to the tank.

So far, my fish is still huddled in the corner so no immediate improvement but I am concerned that I will have to look at other avenues of treatment as the readings don't seem to be flagging anything up. Would that be a fair comment?

Do I need to be looking at other ailments that cause this behaviour? Diet? Maybe treatment through antibiotics?

Here are some pics I took during and after water change:

Cheers for your help.

 

[snazy]

I will work to get the Ammonia level back down to zero. When should I next test?

I normally test 2 hours afterwards, if ammonia is increasing, you are in a fish in cycle. Just as a constructive critisism, have you cycled your tank and how long do you have the fish? Toxic ammonia is present in newly setup tanks. Your fish have been there for a while and long exposure to this are deadly.

Do you want to treat the tank with antibiotics? No, unless you are completely sure what disease you are dealing with. In an uncycled tank, there is no point. Fish will either die from ammonia or wrong treatment and some medication will kill even the little beneficial bacteria that has grown on your filter by now.
Also, more than likely, your fish have been long term exposed to ammonia, as your first post before you received the test kit was 8 days ago. So more than likely this is the cause. Besides clamped fins, is there anything else? If you really thing it is a disease instead, then post a picture of the fish here.

Just an update on this...i've just done a 50% water change on the tank and also added 12ml of Interpet Ammonia Remover to the tank.

Don't put ammonia remover until you have tested and there is ammonia in the tank. Or you are at work or something and the rates at which ammonia is increasing is dangerous.
What it does is, converts it to ammonium, which is non-toxic to fish, but can't be processed by the beneficial bacteria, so eventually you maybe cycling your tank for a long time.
When you do a 50% water change, test for ammonia. If still present, do another water change until you bring this to a nearly 0 visible to your human eyes. If ammonia was testing 0.25, then 50% water change brings it down to 0.13, so what's the point of doing a water change unless you bring it to 0.

Sorry to aks you again, but what is the reading for nitrates in the tap water?

What is the filter flow rate per hour/litres or gallons an hour?

So far, my fish is still huddled in the corner so no immediate improvement but I am concerned that I will have to look at other avenues of treatment as the readings don't seem to be flagging anything up. Would that be a fair comment?

As above, it is risky to treat unless you know what. And whatever it is, it is either caused by ammonia/nitrite poisoning, or it has appeared as a consequence of that.

 

[snazy]

Sorry, never saw the pictures the first time.
Don't overfeed them while you still have ammonia/nitrite reading as of course it is directly related.

But from the picture, it just looks like stressed fish. That's the way they are when exposed to ammonia. Since the goldfish is normally hard fish and does not die quickly from ammonia poisoning, it is logical... I would really do 90% water change if there is ammonia reading after the last change, test again and change water again if needs to. Make sure you siphon the dirt and leftovers, but try not to stir too much while cycling.

 

[crmpicco]

I will work to get the Ammonia level back down to zero. When should I next test?

I normally test 2 hours afterwards, if ammonia is increasing, you are in a fish in cycle. Just as a constructive critisism, have you cycled your tank and how long do you have the fish? Toxic ammonia is present in newly setup tanks. Your fish have been there for a while and long exposure to this are deadly.

Do you want to treat the tank with antibiotics? No, unless you are completely sure what disease you are dealing with. In an uncycled tank, there is no point. Fish will either die from ammonia or wrong treatment and some medication will kill even the little beneficial bacteria that has grown on your filter by now.
Also, more than likely, your fish have been long term exposed to ammonia, as your first post before you received the test kit was 8 days ago. So more than likely this is the cause. Besides clamped fins, is there anything else? If you really thing it is a disease instead, then post a picture of the fish here.

Just an update on this...i've just done a 50% water change on the tank and also added 12ml of Interpet Ammonia Remover to the tank.

Don't put ammonia remover until you have tested and there is ammonia in the tank. Or you are at work or something and the rates at which ammonia is increasing is dangerous.
What it does is, converts it to ammonium, which is non-toxic to fish, but can't be processed by the beneficial bacteria, so eventually you maybe cycling your tank for a long time.
When you do a 50% water change, test for ammonia. If still present, do another water change until you bring this to a nearly 0 visible to your human eyes. If ammonia was testing 0.25, then 50% water change brings it down to 0.13, so what's the point of doing a water change unless you bring it to 0.

Sorry to aks you again, but what is the reading for nitrates in the tap water?

What is the filter flow rate per hour/litres or gallons an hour?

So far, my fish is still huddled in the corner so no immediate improvement but I am concerned that I will have to look at other avenues of treatment as the readings don't seem to be flagging anything up. Would that be a fair comment?

As above, it is risky to treat unless you know what. And whatever it is, it is either caused by ammonia/nitrite poisoning, or it has appeared as a consequence of that.

Thanks for your replies, they are much appreciated

I have not, as yet, re-tested the water since I posted up these readings and carried out the 50% water change. I did, however, one day after changing the water remove what was left of the old living plants that were added in August and add three new ones in. Adding these plants in seemed to spark Jack into life to an extent. I read that stress in fish can be brought on from boredom and with two (dying and old) plants in the tank I don't think this would have been doing him any good. The three new plants certainly make the tank look healthier and I guess the oxygen they inject into the water won't do any harm

There definitely was ammonia in the tank (see readings), so this is why I added the ammonia remover. It doesn't seem to have had any detrimental affect on my fish to date.

What I will do tomorrow is do a full range of tests for on both the tank water and tap water - would that help?

I'm not sure how to find out the filter flow rate p/hr - how would I find that out? One thing I can tell you about my filter is it's on 24/7/365 and the filter media has not been rinsed under a tap or replaced since September (when the tank was installed).

 

[Cazgar]

Your tank looks quite bare, goldies do like to have hiding places & plants to nibble on
The clamped fins could be due to stress, try adding a few more plants for them

 

[snazy]

What I will do tomorrow is do a full range of tests for on both the tank water and tap water - would that help?

I'm not sure how to find out the filter flow rate p/hr - how would I find that out? One thing I can tell you about my filter is it's on 24/7/365 and the filter media has not been rinsed under a tap or replaced since September (when the tank was installed).

Post the results of the test, once done. Keep the ammonia below 0.25, as close to 0 as possible with water changes. Plants also help with the ammonia depending on the type of plants and well decorated tank will make the fish feel safer and happier.

The flow rate of the filter would be either written on the box, if you still have it. Post the brand of the filter here if you know what it is. If it is one of those unknown ones like I have, the water flow rate may be written on a sticker on the powerhead somewhere if it is accessible to view.

 

[crmpicco]

OK, I have done some tests on both the tank water and tap water, these are the results:

Ammonia: 0.25ppm Tank / 0ppm Tap
Nitrite: 0ppm Tank / 0ppm Tap
Nitrate: 10ppm Tank / 0ppm Tap
pH: 7.6 Tank / 7.6 Tap​

Do they look ok? I understand that the tank ammonia level is still slightly too high and should be down to 0ppm, however i'm not sure how to go about doing this? I have Ammonia Remover, but I don't know how often I should add this, or if at all in these circumstances? All other levels are ok though, yeah?

Cazgar - thanks for your advice, i've done just that...added three new live plants ( 3 for £5.50 at Pets at Home ) My fish have reacted quite well to the introduction of the plants so far, they're more lively and do like to hide and play in the plants.

snazy - Thanks for your help again. The filter I have is a Fluval 3 Plus. There is a blue slider on the front which (I guess) would allow me to adjust the flow? I have never changed it since I was given it. When you say "don't stir too much when cycling" do you mean that when I am cleaning the gravel and removing water that I shouldn't stir the gravel too much displacing waste etc? If that is the case then I have done that every time i've changed the water as I have tried to get all waste out when cleaning gravel.

Cheers.