Cichlid's eye about to fall out due to bacterial infection

[gilltyascharged]

Sharing this from a post I made on The Cichlid Forum (not many active members frequent that sub-forum). Today I noticed improvement on his right eye, in which the "red thing" has disappeared and the cloudy lens has flattened out some.

I noticed our red-shoulder peacock (RSP), who has always been a bit bugeyed (which I'm now realizing was likely popeye), had a cloudy "film" over his right eye. I thought it might be signs of a bacterial infection, but my dad said we should wait it out. Fast forward to five days ago, and this same eye now has "stuff" coming off of it. Four days later something red seems to be protruding from the site, and my dad allows me to set up an old 5gal tank (not ideal, but the best thing we have right now) as a quarantine tank. There I see a white patch or two on his back (~1mm in diameter), which I'm almost positive are columnaris.

I read through many articles, and decided that the best course of treatment would be antibiotic-laced gel food (I myself just got prescribed some amoxicillin for strep a few days ago...never thought I'd spend a sick day making medicated food with my own prescription). While he has taken it so far, I can't help but worry that the infection may be too far along.
Note: I have just read ColinT's post. I am re-posting this from another fish forum I'm on, and have just now read through this particular site (prior to that I've been doing Google searches and going from there...whoops). The particular source I decided to gamble on was one called AquariumScience; this is all to say that no, I had not read ColinT's post up until today, and action was taken a few days ago.

TL,DR; red-shouldered peacock thought to have bacterial infection. Symptoms include popeye (both eyes), cloudy eye that appears to be falling off (right eye), and white spots on body thought to be columnaris.

(Post 1/2)

 

[gilltyascharged]

75 gallon tank that has been up for ~2mos, with a three-week fishless cycle. Water temp is consistently 80°F. Decorations were all added prior to fish inclusion, although vallisneria was added a few days after.

Tank inhabitants include DB peacock (tank boss), OB peacock, Bicolor peacocks x2, and young lemon jake (currently at the bottom of the totem pole). All fish are 4.5-6" in length; OB has been with us for 4yrs, and all but the DB came from a LFS about an hour away, introduced about a month ago (Aug 23), while the DB came from a LFS in-town (Aug 24).

Due to fish only being in there for a month, we have done a single top off (about 10% from evaporation) and a 15% water change. Water addition is via hose (my dad uses a filtration device on the end of the hose, also used in our camper), and I add dechlorinator to the water each time. We did introduce vallisneria from the LFS around the same time the fish were introduced, which has led to (what I believe is) hydra. Note that dwarf sag from this same supplier led to similar creatures in my 6.6gal puffer tank. I am unsure of water parameters as of this moment...hoping to get them checked out in next day or so (my parents have been busy, and I've been home sick with strep and a fever). Filtration consists of two 50gal HOB filters on either side of the tank.

This particular fish has been with us for a little over a month. I was not present when my parents purchased the fish, but it came home with somewhat tattered fins and a rather "bugeyed" appearance. I chalked all of this up to tank aggression at the store and just being a weird looking fish, completely overlooking the possibility of popeye.

Newest symptoms (from this last week) included what appeared to be an "eye injury" (a tattered strip of something hanging off the top of the eye), progressed to cloudiness in that particular eye, which then appeared to be an opaque "lens" that started coming off the eye, and now has something red protruding from the site. Upon closer examination, there are a couple of whitish spots on the fish that appear to be columnaris (about 1-2mm in diameter and slightly raised, but only in isolated areas). From my observations, this fish seems to engage in little conflict with his tankmates (tank boss seems more interested in asserting dominance with bicolor and OB male).

For reference, here are photos showing the progression of his eye:

"Bugeyed" appearance that has been present from Day 1:

I couldn't find a photo of the "tattered" appearance, but here is the "cloudy" eye stage:

The following photos are of the "red thing protruding" stage, taken as of Thursday...I am hiding them due to their potentially graphic nature:

Spoiler: Hidden images

In the two days on Amoxicillin-laced food (again, I am just now reading ColinT's post. This was information that I had not yet accessed until today), the afflicted eye appears to be looking better: the red thing is gone, and the tattered, opaque lens has flattened down to the eye. He is still popeyed, but the white spots on his body have also decreased in size.

 

[Colin_T]

What is the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate level in the water?

What is the pH, GH & KH of the water?
Peacock cichlids (Aulonocara sp) are Rift Lake cichlids and come from Lake Malawi in Africa. This lake has hard water with a GH around 300ppm and a pH between 7.6-8.4.

What are the tank dimensions (length x width x height)?

Can we get a picture showing the entire aquarium?

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It's not Columnaris.

The white stuff on the eye is excess mucous. The fish also appears to have excess mucous (creamy white film) over its head, body and fins. This is usually caused by something in the water irritating the fish. Treatment normally involves big water changes and gravel cleaning the substrate every day for a week to make sure the water is good.

If one eye goes white and cloudy that is normally caused by a physical injury. Clean water and salt can usually fix it but in more severe cases or when that hasn't worked, then medications are needed to treat bacterial infections.

The red on the eye is blood and looks like physical damage. This is in the same location as the main bit of excess mucous (thicker white lump on the eye) in the early pictures. This could be from the fish being attacked or swimming into a rock or something hard that has caused the injury.

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If the medication is working then keep using it for at least one week (probably two weeks).

Try to do a massive water change and gravel clean the substrate before re-treating the aquarium. You should also wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean sponge before re-treating the tank.

If you have carbon in the filter, that should be removed so it doesn't suck the medication out of the water. Throw the carbon away and replace it with a sponge.

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If you use a garden hose to fill the aquarium, you should turn the tap on and let water run through the hose for a couple of minutes before collecting any water from it. Garden hoses have chemicals in them to keep the hose soft and flexible. This chemical is poisonous to birds, fish, people and animals. The warmer the weather, the more chemical that leaches into the water. Cheap garden hoses usually have less chemicals in them compared to more expensive types that are designed not to kink. I used to water the lawn or garden before filling the tanks from a hose.

You want to do big water changes on a regular basis (at least 50% each week) when keeping cichlids otherwise the water quality can go bad and the fish get sick. Cichlids are susceptible to nitrates and they can develop hole in the head disease caused by Hexamita, which thrive in dirty tanks. Big water changes and gravel cleaning helps keep nitrate levels down and reduces the number of disease organisms in the water. A clean filter also helps, and established filters should be cleaned at least once a month.

 

[Innesfan]

A clean filter also helps, and established filters should be cleaned at least once a month.

And I'd add to @Colin_T 's excellent advice, the cleaning of filter media should be in aquarium water to preserve the beneficial bacteria colony.

Eye infections and popeye are invariably caused by deteriorated water conditions. Clean water is the best treatment. Meds might provide temporary improvement but if the water parameters and water quality aren't addressed the symptoms will worsen. Frequent large water changes will fix popeye surprisingly fast.

 

[gilltyascharged]

Thank you for the response, @Colin_T.
I am currently unsure of the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels in the water; I have been home sick for most of the week and have been unable to go out and get my water tested at the pet store. I’m going to ask my father if he could be so kind as to do so in the morning.
Our pH is 8.0, and while I am unsure of the exact GH/KH at the moment, our area is known for having “liquid rock” water (per the city website).
Tank dimensions are 48x18x21 inches. Here is a recent photo of the tank setup:

I do need to scrub the glass real bad...the brown tint to the rocks is from a treatment my dad put in there a few days ago to rid us of the hydra, which left an unsightly brown hue to the water.
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I should have clarified; suspected Columnaris were the spots on body (just above lateral line)...I suspected Columnaris due to the size and shape of it (think of a piece of rock salt on the skin, but white). I am happy to say that at least one of the spots has disappeared, but there are a few others on his body (if he holds still enough, I will try to get a clear photo).
I appreciate the information on what is on the eye. I assumed that it was an eye injury but was unsure. While the other five cichlids appear to be rather unbothered by him (other than the occasional spat over who gets what pellet), there is décor in there that I wonder if he may have hit at some point. Both eyes are rather bug-eyed, which I initially attributed to odd characteristics of the individual fish, but am now wondering if it is Popeye.
Regarding the possibility of excess mucus on the body: while it could very well be possible, I should also note that none of the photos other than the very top one were clear shots; rather, my phone took “motion shots” that I had to go through and try and clip. I find that when it does this (I’ve noticed this same phenomenon on everything from bird to dog photos) it applies a slightly opaque/whitish quality to the image...I’ll try to see if I can get a better one, as he isn’t quite as active in the small quarantine tank (no room to dash from end to end, I suppose).
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The medication (a smidgen of my 875 mg amoxicillin pill, crushed into a fine powder and mixed into a batch of gel food) *appears* to be working, but only time will tell. The fish is currently isolated in a 5gal quarantine tank (not ideal by any means, but the best we have in this moment) with a sponge filter), in hopes that he’ll experience faster healing separate from his aggressive tankmates.
My father has just done another 25% water change on the main tank, after treating it for the hydra on the glass. I am not sure how exactly he changed the water (I wasn’t present during this event), but we do have coarse sand in there…hoping that will trap most debris on the top of the substrate, but then again, the peacocks love digging around in there for food. I do need to scrub the glass soon (just another way to make photos look clearer).
My father also said he just cleaned the filters today, so I’m also hoping that will help. I will also have to double check with him on how he’s running the hose; I remember him saying that the filter attachment on the end of it is meant to filter out any heavy metals and toxins (he uses it for our water when we go camping), but it doesn’t hurt to double check.

 

[gilltyascharged]

Eye infections and popeye are invariably caused by deteriorated water conditions. Clean water is the best treatment. Meds might provide temporary improvement but if the water parameters and water quality aren't addressed the symptoms will worsen. Frequent large water changes will fix popeye surprisingly fast.

I appreciate the input, Innesfan. However, I was slightly confused at one bit; in this case, the cichlid came home with what appears to be Popeye (who knows, maybe he is just naturally odd looking). While water quality has likely deteriorated naturally (from the baseline, that is), this has been an issue that has been specific to this fish from day one...no one else in the tank has had similar issues, which is where I am somewhat confused.

Thoughts?

 

[Colin_T]

If you contact your water company via their website, you should be able to find a water analysis report. This will tell you what the GH and KH are. The GH and KH don't normally change unless you change water supplies, so it's normally pretty stable. Liquid rock usually means it has a high GH and KH, which is ideal for these fish.

There's a couple of rocks in the tank that could be an issue. One is the white coral on the right hand side, the other two are the black rock and the white one behind it, located on the far left of the tank. If any of these have sharp bits, they might be responsible for the eye injury. You can use sand paper on a sanding block to remove the sharp edges on some rocks.

If you add some floating plants to the tank, they will help keep the water cleaner between water changes. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides/ cornuta) is one of the better floating plants for aquariums.

 

[gilltyascharged]

If you contact your water company via their website, you should be able to find a water analysis report. This will tell you what the GH and KH are. The GH and KH don't normally change unless you change water supplies, so it's normally pretty stable. Liquid rock usually means it has a high GH and KH, which is ideal for these fish.

There's a couple of rocks in the tank that could be an issue. One is the white coral on the right hand side, the other two are the black rock and the white one behind it, located on the far left of the tank. If any of these have sharp bits, they might be responsible for the eye injury. You can use sand paper on a sanding block to remove the sharp edges on some rocks.

If you add some floating plants to the tank, they will help keep the water cleaner between water changes. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides/ cornuta) is one of the better floating plants for aquariums.

I'm glad to hear that you also think the coral pieces (both the left and the right) look rather sharp. I've been wondering about them (my dad chose to add them), but after some time just grew used to them. I could definitely ask my father to take them to the garage one of these days; the black one isn't really sharp, but is textured in such a way that something like anubias would have a hayday covering any rough surfaces.

I have been considering adding floating plants in there—while I don't have water sprite, I do have tons of frogbit, giant duckweed, and guppy grass (Najas indica). While the former might be torn apart by the tank's inhabitants, I'm not too worried about the giant duckweed spreading (it's easy enough to remove, and I've been using it in homemade fish food recipes for our mbuna).

 

[Colin_T]

Limestone and sandstone rocks are the best for Rift Lake cichlid tanks so if you do remove the dead coral skeletons, replace them with some smooth limestone rocks.

Add some frogbit and or duckweed to the tank to suck up nutrients and help keep the water cleaner.

 

[gilltyascharged]

Well, we're now on day 5 of the QT and antibiotics and already he looks much better; the white growths have receded completely, his fins are growing back, and the eye injury is healing beautifully. The only thing: he's still bugeyed. I'm beginning to wonder if it actually is Popeye, or if he truly is an anatomical oddity. Here's some photos of his "baseline":

 

[Colin_T]

I can't tell anything from the pictures but fish's eyes naturally stick out a little bit from the head, some more than others. Popeye disease is more of a common term for bulging eyes and can be caused by an infection in the brain, skull, head or eyeball. I would just finish the treatment and monitor the fish. Post some pictures showing the fish head on so we can see if the eyes appear to be sticking out more than normal.

 

[gilltyascharged]

Hope these work, ColinT...it was easier to get higher resolution pictures without having a fish constantly in motion, but I did have to get a screencap from a video for some of those.

Thoughts?

 

[Colin_T]

In some of the pictures it looks like the eyes are sticking out more but in others it looks normal Just finish treatment and see how the fish is after that.

If a fish has an infection in the brain it will have trouble swimming and they usually spin/ spiral through the water. They don't eat normally and die within a week or two of showing those symptoms.

If the fish swims and eats normally, then don't worry about it.