I was at my lfs yesturday, and whilst looking through their tanks they had some chocolate gouramis, they were 1inch inc tail maximum, absolutely gorgeous, are they like other gouramis? I'm guessing they grow to about 3 inches? My oscar has a new home waiting for it, so very soon i will have some space in my tank which ill want to fill. Are they suitable, how many would you recommend?
Chocolate gouramis
- Thread starter DMan99
- Start date
dwarfgourami
Fish Connoisseur
No own experience, but this is what I've read:
considered sensitive, wants soft acidic water, mature tank, likes small live food, thrives in groups, require excellent water quality
considered sensitive, wants soft acidic water, mature tank, likes small live food, thrives in groups, require excellent water quality
Are they like other gouramies? Yes, and no.
For a start, unlike most other species, they are mouthbrooders - somewhat like mbuna cichlids. They are also often considered to be more difficult to keep than discus and that makes them a bad choice for anyone who hasn't thoroughly researched them first (they are not a good impulse buy - you need to go out there and realy do some searches and read some long articles and make the descision to set up a tank centered around them). Keep in mind that there are several species of 'chocolate gourami' but not all are actualy the 'true' (if you like) chocolate (sphaerichthys osphromenoides). Luckily, however, this species is the most common and many of the others which actualy look similar have similar requirements as well. They get to about 3" and realy do need some frozen/live foods in their diet to be healthy. I know some have been known to refuse commercial flake/pellet foods but this is becoming less of an issue as they are increasingly captively bred. They also do best in a group of at least 8 but, as they are also sensitive to water quality, you need a pretty big tank for this. I would say at least a 40 so you can keep them with a few small tetras or something as well. They are easily intimidated by larger or aggressive or overly-active fish. Small, peaceful schooling species and a few bottom-dwelling, peaceful catfish such as cories or a plec are good tankmates. They do best in a very heavily planted tank (I think they look nice with driftwood included in the set-up and it also serves as a good hiding place) or they will hide most of the time and tend towards being shy and edgy. The low pH thing is also an issue but more so if you want to try your hand at breeding them in which case you need a pH of about 6. Remember, however, that fluctuating pH is more deadly than one that is steady but may not match the exact preffered value for the species. They also appreciate a high temperature - around 80 deg F should suffice. Though they do have some special requirements and are a little more sensitive than many other common gourami species, this fish still has a typical gourami character - they may seem fragile and easily stressed but they can also be quite aggressive (hence a bigger group being better) and they still have that same inquisitiveness that can most clearly be seen in gouramies with elongated, thread-like ventral 'feelers' such as those common colisa and trichogaster species.
For a start, unlike most other species, they are mouthbrooders - somewhat like mbuna cichlids. They are also often considered to be more difficult to keep than discus and that makes them a bad choice for anyone who hasn't thoroughly researched them first (they are not a good impulse buy - you need to go out there and realy do some searches and read some long articles and make the descision to set up a tank centered around them). Keep in mind that there are several species of 'chocolate gourami' but not all are actualy the 'true' (if you like) chocolate (sphaerichthys osphromenoides). Luckily, however, this species is the most common and many of the others which actualy look similar have similar requirements as well. They get to about 3" and realy do need some frozen/live foods in their diet to be healthy. I know some have been known to refuse commercial flake/pellet foods but this is becoming less of an issue as they are increasingly captively bred. They also do best in a group of at least 8 but, as they are also sensitive to water quality, you need a pretty big tank for this. I would say at least a 40 so you can keep them with a few small tetras or something as well. They are easily intimidated by larger or aggressive or overly-active fish. Small, peaceful schooling species and a few bottom-dwelling, peaceful catfish such as cories or a plec are good tankmates. They do best in a very heavily planted tank (I think they look nice with driftwood included in the set-up and it also serves as a good hiding place) or they will hide most of the time and tend towards being shy and edgy. The low pH thing is also an issue but more so if you want to try your hand at breeding them in which case you need a pH of about 6. Remember, however, that fluctuating pH is more deadly than one that is steady but may not match the exact preffered value for the species. They also appreciate a high temperature - around 80 deg F should suffice. Though they do have some special requirements and are a little more sensitive than many other common gourami species, this fish still has a typical gourami character - they may seem fragile and easily stressed but they can also be quite aggressive (hence a bigger group being better) and they still have that same inquisitiveness that can most clearly be seen in gouramies with elongated, thread-like ventral 'feelers' such as those common colisa and trichogaster species.
Thanks for everyones replies.
Wow, a complicated fish! Very nice though, after reading that im still interested in keeping them so i think im going to keep them in mind but do some more research. The ones at my lfs are very small and are 3.99 UK pounds per fish, is that a reasonable price? Also i know you mentioned groups of 8, but is that many really the recommended amount or would it be ok with 4/5? If you say 8 to this, and i decided to proceed with them then 8 i shall get.. I've kept some of the trichogaster gouramis before, really like them and have two large blue opalines at the moment, one male one female. What are these like at breeding as they seem reluctant to do so for me so any help or pointers with breeding the blue opalines would be gratefully recieved.
Thanks again,
Dman99
Wow, a complicated fish! Very nice though, after reading that im still interested in keeping them so i think im going to keep them in mind but do some more research. The ones at my lfs are very small and are 3.99 UK pounds per fish, is that a reasonable price? Also i know you mentioned groups of 8, but is that many really the recommended amount or would it be ok with 4/5? If you say 8 to this, and i decided to proceed with them then 8 i shall get.. I've kept some of the trichogaster gouramis before, really like them and have two large blue opalines at the moment, one male one female. What are these like at breeding as they seem reluctant to do so for me so any help or pointers with breeding the blue opalines would be gratefully recieved.
Thanks again,
Dman99
Yes, I would stick to 8. You could try 6 but 8 is better. Realy, this size group is required to minimise aggression. Considering they are easily-stressed fish, it's obvious why this is important.
As for the three-spots, these are actualy considered easy to breed and are one of the hardiest and most robust gouramies. You first need at least a 10 gallon, set up as a breeding tank. You can't breed them in a community set-up. Let me know if you have one and how it is set up. Then I'll see what I can suggest to encourage them to breed. Include the kind of filter, any ornaments/substrate/plants, the temp of the tank, the lighting and any other details. If you can, give me the ammonia/nitrIte/nitrAte and pH levels as well (just to make sure). Oh and what are you feeding them at the moment and are you sure you have a male/female pair?
Just wondering BTW, are you going to be keeping the chocolates with these? Idealy, the chocolates should have a species tank dedicated to them. The three-spots are likely to cause problems as they are quite aggressive, especialy towards other gouramies, and the chocolates won't be able to handle this without becoming stressed.
As for the three-spots, these are actualy considered easy to breed and are one of the hardiest and most robust gouramies. You first need at least a 10 gallon, set up as a breeding tank. You can't breed them in a community set-up. Let me know if you have one and how it is set up. Then I'll see what I can suggest to encourage them to breed. Include the kind of filter, any ornaments/substrate/plants, the temp of the tank, the lighting and any other details. If you can, give me the ammonia/nitrIte/nitrAte and pH levels as well (just to make sure). Oh and what are you feeding them at the moment and are you sure you have a male/female pair?
Just wondering BTW, are you going to be keeping the chocolates with these? Idealy, the chocolates should have a species tank dedicated to them. The three-spots are likely to cause problems as they are quite aggressive, especialy towards other gouramies, and the chocolates won't be able to handle this without becoming stressed.
Thanks for ur help sylvia. If i was going to get the chocolate gouramis i would dedicate a 30G to them that i was recently given... Strictly species only.
I think i have a male/ female pair. Looking at the fins, the fin (always mix up the names) below the body of the gourami in males is a lot bigger... and in females is smaller, is this right? Looking at them, one of them, the slightly large one has a huge fin beneath the body and the other who i thought was a female obviously has the fin but it is tiny in comparison. The breeding tank ive setup is as follows: 30"x12"x15". Fine gravel substrate, internal fluval 3+ filter with a 150w heater. One large piece of bogwood, with rocky surroundings and real plants. I'm feeding them a mixture of flake, frozen bloodworm and live brineshrimp. The temperature is 78 F and the lighting is one 24" aquaglo tube. By rocky surroundings i mean there is one piece of slate, and some smaller pieces sourrounding one corner which creates an area to hide. I have amazon swords, a few on another plant (fine leaved unsure of name) and then on top there is some salvinia. I thought i saw a bubblenest but it was very small so i guess it isnt.. The test readings from this morning are as follows:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate:10PPM
pH of 7 exactly.
Any info would help!
dman
I think i have a male/ female pair. Looking at the fins, the fin (always mix up the names) below the body of the gourami in males is a lot bigger... and in females is smaller, is this right? Looking at them, one of them, the slightly large one has a huge fin beneath the body and the other who i thought was a female obviously has the fin but it is tiny in comparison. The breeding tank ive setup is as follows: 30"x12"x15". Fine gravel substrate, internal fluval 3+ filter with a 150w heater. One large piece of bogwood, with rocky surroundings and real plants. I'm feeding them a mixture of flake, frozen bloodworm and live brineshrimp. The temperature is 78 F and the lighting is one 24" aquaglo tube. By rocky surroundings i mean there is one piece of slate, and some smaller pieces sourrounding one corner which creates an area to hide. I have amazon swords, a few on another plant (fine leaved unsure of name) and then on top there is some salvinia. I thought i saw a bubblenest but it was very small so i guess it isnt.. The test readings from this morning are as follows:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate:10PPM
pH of 7 exactly.
Any info would help!
dman
Umm I'll go for the easier one first, Ethos - chocolates get to about 3", three-spots up to 6". I'm not sure which of the two exactly you were reffering to.
Now DMan99:
The single fin below the body, just before the tail and behind the long ventral 'feelers' is called the anal fin - basically because it is positioned beside the anus where all the poo comes out (now that's memorable right?
). However, it is actualy the dorsal fin (the fin at the top) that is more reliably used to sex three-spot gouramies. Males have a longer, more pointed dorsal while that of the female is rounded and shorter. You can also see (if you have both sexes) that females are deeper-bodied and wider when viewed from above when compared to the more 'stream-lined' looking males.
How many gallons is a 30"X12"X15" tank? Or litres... I'm terrible with dimensions. It sounds like a 20 gallon?
I'm not clear as to whether this tank you have set up is a seperate tank to the main tank or not. You see you need 2 tanks to breed three-spots - one to spawn and raise fry, and one to permanently house the adults.
I'm just going to say that the tank you have set up at the moment will not work to breed them in. A selection of reasons why?: too strong a current, filter will suck up the fry, should be bare-bottomed to make picking up eggs and finding food easier for the male/fry respectively and so on. You also need to be prepaired to feed the very, very tiny fry when they first hatch out - infusoria may be needed at first (or try commercial liquid foods), then prefferably microworms (but you can try newly-hatched baby brine shrimp though I personaly don't like to rely on those as they can cause health problems if the fry manage to swallow one of the egg shells).
What I can say is that your feeding of the adults sounds good. I would also raise the temp. to about 80 deg F gradualy though 78 is usualy fine for three-spots. This should realy be fine for conditioning them. Feeding them the occasional veggie is good too - peas, zuchinni, courgette, cucumber and even lettuce - blanched or shelled accordingly - are often appreciated.
Now, as I don't, to be honest, realy want to type this out again, (ask if you have any questions though by all means), here are links to a few threads in which I posted about breeding gouramies in some detail. There are still things missing though so do ask if you aren't clear on something.
Here: http
/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=93178 (about pearls but three-spots are pretty much the same except they tend towards being more violent during spawning).
and: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=91562 (about dwarfs, but, again, very similar process)
Those are the ones I can find at the moment.
I'm sure there are many more threads about breeding gouramies. Those in the trichogaster and colisa genus are all very similar as far as breeding behaviour goes so maybe do a search on them (three-spots and all their color morphs, pearls, moonlights, snakeskins, dwarfs, honeys, banded and thick-lipped...)
There's also a pinned topic (I think) on breeding dwarf gouramies. The process is similar though the person who posted may not necessarily have the same viewpoint as I do on how to breed them so do keep that in mind and do some more research to see what other people think as well.
BTW, info on breeding gouramies is generaly limmited but there's an amazing number of betta-related articles on the net. These can be used as refference as well as they are both bred in a very similar way - the only main difference being that bettas will kill each other more readily.
Good luck!
Now DMan99:
The single fin below the body, just before the tail and behind the long ventral 'feelers' is called the anal fin - basically because it is positioned beside the anus where all the poo comes out (now that's memorable right?
). However, it is actualy the dorsal fin (the fin at the top) that is more reliably used to sex three-spot gouramies. Males have a longer, more pointed dorsal while that of the female is rounded and shorter. You can also see (if you have both sexes) that females are deeper-bodied and wider when viewed from above when compared to the more 'stream-lined' looking males.How many gallons is a 30"X12"X15" tank? Or litres... I'm terrible with dimensions.
It sounds like a 20 gallon? I'm not clear as to whether this tank you have set up is a seperate tank to the main tank or not. You see you need 2 tanks to breed three-spots - one to spawn and raise fry, and one to permanently house the adults.
I'm just going to say that the tank you have set up at the moment will not work to breed them in. A selection of reasons why?: too strong a current, filter will suck up the fry, should be bare-bottomed to make picking up eggs and finding food easier for the male/fry respectively and so on. You also need to be prepaired to feed the very, very tiny fry when they first hatch out - infusoria may be needed at first (or try commercial liquid foods), then prefferably microworms (but you can try newly-hatched baby brine shrimp though I personaly don't like to rely on those as they can cause health problems if the fry manage to swallow one of the egg shells).
What I can say is that your feeding of the adults sounds good. I would also raise the temp. to about 80 deg F gradualy though 78 is usualy fine for three-spots. This should realy be fine for conditioning them. Feeding them the occasional veggie is good too - peas, zuchinni, courgette, cucumber and even lettuce - blanched or shelled accordingly - are often appreciated.
Now, as I don't, to be honest, realy want to type this out again, (ask if you have any questions though by all means), here are links to a few threads in which I posted about breeding gouramies in some detail. There are still things missing though so do ask if you aren't clear on something.
Here: http
/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=93178 (about pearls but three-spots are pretty much the same except they tend towards being more violent during spawning).and: http
/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=91562 (about dwarfs, but, again, very similar process)Those are the ones I can find at the moment.
I'm sure there are many more threads about breeding gouramies. Those in the trichogaster and colisa genus are all very similar as far as breeding behaviour goes so maybe do a search on them (three-spots and all their color morphs, pearls, moonlights, snakeskins, dwarfs, honeys, banded and thick-lipped...)
There's also a pinned topic (I think) on breeding dwarf gouramies. The process is similar though the person who posted may not necessarily have the same viewpoint as I do on how to breed them so do keep that in mind and do some more research to see what other people think as well.
BTW, info on breeding gouramies is generaly limmited but there's an amazing number of betta-related articles on the net. These can be used as refference as well as they are both bred in a very similar way - the only main difference being that bettas will kill each other more readily.
Good luck!
Thanks for all the help sylvia!
The tank is approximately 20G, and it is seperate to the main tank so once eggs are laid (fingers crossed) the parents will be moved out of the tank. I have a flow adjuster on the filter so there is minimal current, there is also a piece of slate directly over it so further reduces it.. It sounds like my setup, bar the substrate should work. I have a free day on thursday so i'll remove the substrate then and hope for the best! Looking at my gouramis, from the top i would say i am 95% sure after ur information that i have a male and a female. I have cotton material tied round the filter so that they cannot be sucked in, whilst dirt can built it up, its only a quick job to remove and clean... I was doing some research into feeding fry and the majority of it mentioned infusoria, we also have liquifry fry food at work and microworms... So should they breed and she be 'with eggs' i will buy the needed food.
It sounds like im all set-up so ill let you know how it goes!
Thanks again, you've been great.
Dman
The tank is approximately 20G, and it is seperate to the main tank so once eggs are laid (fingers crossed) the parents will be moved out of the tank. I have a flow adjuster on the filter so there is minimal current, there is also a piece of slate directly over it so further reduces it.. It sounds like my setup, bar the substrate should work. I have a free day on thursday so i'll remove the substrate then and hope for the best! Looking at my gouramis, from the top i would say i am 95% sure after ur information that i have a male and a female. I have cotton material tied round the filter so that they cannot be sucked in, whilst dirt can built it up, its only a quick job to remove and clean... I was doing some research into feeding fry and the majority of it mentioned infusoria, we also have liquifry fry food at work and microworms... So should they breed and she be 'with eggs' i will buy the needed food.
It sounds like im all set-up so ill let you know how it goes!
Thanks again, you've been great.
Dman
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