Cardinal Tetra

[JeffroM]

I have a 90 gallon tank that has been setup for 2 months.

My first fish was a pleco which has been in it for the total 2 months and is doing great.

6 weeks ago I purchase 6 Cardinal - all died in a matter of 2 days, but I questioned the source because I didn't even make it home from the LFS.

5 weeks ago I purchased 6 more cardinals from a different FS. They all died with in 4 days, this time I questioned their life expectations after letting my 12 year old release them. She dumped them as fast as she could from the bag into a net - letting them all crash into each other in the net. Okay so I learned - she doesn't touch the fish anymore.

4 weeks ago I was given 2 discus. The discus seem to be doing great. Great color. Always looking for food.

3 weeks ago I purchased 6 more cardinals from a 3rd different store. All of which lasted 2 weeks but in the past week they all have died again.

Only a couple of the cardinals ever showed signs of problems prior to their demise. The 2 or 3 that I predicted their death where doing quick darting prior to their demise.

The PH is 7.0. I would like to get it lower but won't use chemicals. 7.0 isn't great but it shouldn't be the cause of their deaths. Amoninia, Nitrites, and Nitrates all are fine and the tank has fully cycled.

I have 2 theories about their demise.

#1 The tank is to turboulent for them. I didn't think it would be a problem but I guess I could be wrong. I have a sump filter that pumps about 400 gallons per hour and a backpack power filter meant for up to 110 gallon aquarium (not sure as to the gallons per hour).

#2 They don't deal well with the water changes. I've been doing 25% water changes weekly. The water going into the tank is the same 7.0 ph and goes into the tank at 74-75 degrees. I have the tank set for 78-79 degrees. I initially thought the couple degree difference wasn't a big deal but now I have my doubts.

Based on hearing this information anyone have thoughts as to why my cardinals keep dying.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

 

[MegTheFish]

Hmmm...I really have no clue. The tank being too turboulent wouldn't be a problem for them, and doing 25% water changes a week wouldn't be the cause, and in that big of a tank I don't think the small difference in temperature of the new clean water would affect the fish. A PH of 7 is ok for them, most fish will adjust to any PH.

Being off topic here, but, you might run into problems having a pleco and discus in the same tank. The pleco may start sucking on the discus because of their flat surface. I don't really understand why but I know with the "flatter" slower-moving fish that this can happen.

 

[lljdma06]

When I kept cardinals, back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, I waited until my tank was mature. It had been up and running for over a year. When I was keeping them, Cardinals were still wild-caught, or books said that they were. I'm not sure if that's true still, as I haven't kept them in a long time, 5+ years. I kept a school of 24 in a 45-hex. But that tank was running for a year with a large piece of driftwood in it. They were the last fish I added in that tank. I can't remember my pH off hand, but it was between 6.8 and 7.0, quite a feat in the liquid rock of S. FL. They survived for about a year and a half. My mom adored them. One was quite large, nearly 2 inches long! I read a long time ago that they liked older tanks and do best in that situation, but it's been so long. My advice would be to wait on them awhile and let the tank mature. Believe me, they are well worth it, as they are an incredible fish. The tank was dimly lit too, so all you saw was a beautiful play of red and neon stripes, really soothing. When they died, I didn't keep tropicals for quite some time and set up the tank into a goldfish aquarium in 2000, where it remained until Katrina took care of the goldfish . Now, I'm back into tropicals.

 

[cyprinut]

Good point, Meg. I've read about people having the same problem numerous times. As far as the tetras Jeffro, they may be succumbing to a species specific disease or parasite that came home with the first batch.

 

[The-Wolf]

cardinals do not travel well, they are sensative and easily sucumb to colamaris.

at work we only source wild cardinals now (were getting farm bred from Czech and lost 5 batches of 100) and they are a bit hardier as there is negligable inbreeding. Ask the place your buying them from if they are wild or farm stock. if the shop don't know, walk away.

I have cardinals myself and have them in a peat filtered tank, which they thrive in.
HTH

 

[BettaUK]

Hiya,

I know what your going through, it took me ages to get a nice group of cardinals. I kept loosing fish like yourself.

Details of my Problems with shop brought Cardinals are in this post link:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=84973&hl=

HTH

Lawrence

 

[Bloo]

Cardinal / Neons and many other fish "prefer" mature tanks. Not just cycled. Mature is generally anything from around 6 months onwards.
Some people seem to be lucky enough to actually cycle their tanks with Neons etc. but these are generally not hardy fish at all and require pristine water conditions in a mature tank.

 

[mr.dark-saint]

As most things if one purchase from your LFS do ask what their water perameters in their system are so you may duplicate it (or at lease close to it) for the Cards. The best Cards I had was a local breeder's stock since the water used were close so the transition was easier. Since, not many people have that luxury or option simulate the LFS water condition is the best. That is if the fish lived in there for at least a week (even then it's a 50/50 shot). Go to a Pet in a Box with a 2 week kill period and have them order as many as you can afford (wait for the fish to go on sale to do this). Have a quarenteen tank set up and take the fish home without them releasing them in to their system (why make the fish go through 3 or 4 different waters) that means have them set the bag aside in the box and give you a call.

As for making your water "Tea" colored by using Peat or drift wood if the Cards aren't used to that they'll also die from shock (I know what the book state).

 

[The-Wolf]

As for making your water "Tea" colored by using Peat or drift wood if the Cards aren't used to that they'll also die from shock (I know what the book state).

[snapback]905862[/snapback]​

that's not true
tannins have no adverse effect of fish, period.

 

[mr.dark-saint]

As for making your water "Tea" colored by using Peat or drift wood if the Cards aren't used to that they'll also die from shock (I know what the book state).

[snapback]905862[/snapback]​

that's not true
tannins have no adverse effect of fish, period.

[snapback]905866[/snapback]​

I should've clarified the "Tea". What I ment to say but didn't (had to step away from the desk and I should've just left the screen opened) is to lower the Ph by using Peat or the likes for Cards that are not used to that condition, will kill them. Sure you can pick up fish from the shops with 7.6-ish and slowly aclimate them to 7.0 but after all we are talking about Cards (look at them wrong and they'll have a heart attack) and expect to see them living in Amazon Water parameteres 5.5 - 6.0 (like in the books) forget it.

 

[jimbooo]

er why has no one mentioned that discus should not be kept in a tank that is 2 months old and that they will eat the cardinals for lunch!

well thats my first point, sorry would have been wrong not to mention that small stumbling block.

as wolf and others have said cardinals are not hardy fish and should be in a mature tank at least 6 months old. they also need heavy planting or low light. they live in very dark waters hence why they are so colourful (saturated with tannins from the wood filled waters of the amazon - hence bogwood would also be a very usefull addition). without shade and hiding places the stress of a new tank especially a 2 month old tank will not do them any good at all.

many cardinal / neon tetra breeders paint 3 sides of the tank black to create a pitch black area at the back and sides, not necessary in the home aquarium but helps explain their skittishness (thats definatly spelt wrongly, sorry)

the plec vs discus problem is also true. if the plec sucks on the discus it will remove the protective slime coat on the discus leading to infection.

sorry for such a negative post, it's just that i can see so many problems i just had to point them out.

the very best of luck and hopefully you'll find this usefull.
James

 

[lljdma06]

Oh good, so I wasn't wrong when I said they liked mature tanks and good, they're still wild caught. I remember that mine were. Thanks people for jogging my old noggin. They are a really pretty fish, just be patient, if you wait to get them in the right conditions, they will be awesome.

 

[The-Wolf]

expect to see them living in Amazon Water parameteres 5.5 - 6.0 (like in the books) forget it.

[snapback]905904[/snapback]​

I think you need to do some research on cardinals. they hail from the Upper Orinoco and Negro River basins (major tributary for the Amazon)
they are a pelagic; non-migratory; freshwaterfish that prefers a pH range: 4 - 6 and a temp of; 23 - 27°C

 

[JeffroM]

I guess I'll just try again in a few months for the cardinals. But if they need a PH lower than 6 I doubt I will ever be succuseful with them.

Some additional information about my tank. The back and one side are solid black. I have plenty of rock creating hiding places and 2 huge driftwood pieces. I also use peat through my power filter. My water source gives a ph of little above 7 and the peat doesn't bring it down much at all, but I do like the tea coloring effect it gives off.

BTW it was not my intentions on gettting Discus that early on but they where given to me for free and impossible to pass up. They are thriving too. So I'm happy with them.

I understand the potential risks of have a pleco in a discus tank. After weighing all the issues I concluded it is actually a rare problem. In fact if there is going to end up being a problem in my tank it will be because the biggest discus is a bully and will pick on the pleco. The pleco seems to mind his own business but the discus will swim over to the pleco just to harass it. The pleco will just swim off.

I have no concern that the pleco will injure the discus but the concern that I do have that I feel is legit is that the pleco is very active at night while the discus are trying to sleep. Kind of like have a roommate that parties all night every night. That might irritate the discus. I've watched them at night though and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Thanks for the information!

 

[houndour]

I can't really comment too much cos I've only had my cardinals for about 10 days. I tested the pH of the water they came in and it was pH7.6! My pH was 6.8 at the time. I spent ages acclimatising them, but couldnt seem to get the pH lower, so gave up in the end worried that being in the bag was stressful.

After a day they broke out in a bit of whitespot. Only 1 or 2 spots per fish. day 3 I finally got my pressurized CO2 working. My pH is 6.6 now and no sign of whitespot, although 1 cardinal looks like he might not make it. He seems to be the runt of the group, is a bit thin and colourless and gets picked on.

My tank is 6 months old. I also checked all week for a mini cycle, but none occured.

Do discus really eat cardinals? Cos my LFS had 100+ cardinals acclimatising in a tank with 3 inch discus!