rictheredneck
Fish Crazy
my dwarf lion was proudly swimming about with a cardinal half hanging out of its mouth. pretty crazy how big these guys can open their mouths they were pretty much the same size! nevermind...
Cardinal Is Dead
- Thread starter rictheredneck
- Start date
-Nemo-
Build-A-Reef
According to my compatibility Chart, Cardinals and Lionfish are not to be kept together. 
Sorry about your loss though.
Sorry about your loss though.
Lynden
a "fish hater"
I'd be willing to bet that your compatibility chart also states that filefish, triggerfish, pufferfish, and eels can't be kept with small fish, corals, or other invertebrates.According to my compatibility Chart, Cardinals and Lionfish are not to be kept together.
Sorry about your loss though.
A dwarf lion eating a cardinal is a rare occurance, as dwarf lions feed entirely on crustaceans in the wild. Ah well, he saw an opportunity and ran with it!
-Lynden
-Nemo-
Build-A-Reef
In fact it does Lynden, and i'd prefer to stick to it rather than have something like this happen 
Lynden
a "fish hater"
I wouldn't. More interesting and fun that way. Not to mention "breaking the mold", "thinking outside the box"...In fact it does Lynden, and i'd prefer to stick to it rather than have something like this happen
Though as you may know I am a refuter of 'blanket statements' regarding "non reef-safe" fishes. Read my article, why don't you?
I can assure you that in least in that regard I am more "right" than liveaquaria could hope to be. Don't see why fish retailers write those bogus "compatability charts". Seems to me like it would reduce sales.-Lynden
-Nemo-
Build-A-Reef
In fact i read your article when it first came out. While I find it interesting, fish develop these "bad" reputations generally because people have experienced them doing so. If one fish from a species likes to eat or destroy coral, its more than likely another of the same species will also. As you can see i don't believe in those blanket statements.
Mr.September15
Chuck Norris is the reason why waldo's hiding
Sorry for your loss! Cardinals are awesome fish to keep 
I totally agree with you -Nemo-.
Don't know why people would risk the lives of lovely fishes. The ocean is a whole different story, we can never achieve that in a aquarium.
Well some important news for you guys the bangaii cardinals are gonna be on the cities list starting 2008. Meaning no more WC cardinals.
Don't know why people would risk the lives of lovely fishes. The ocean is a whole different story, we can never achieve that in a aquarium.
Well some important news for you guys the bangaii cardinals are gonna be on the cities list starting 2008. Meaning no more WC cardinals.
Lynden
a "fish hater"
So, since Titan Triggers will destroy corals, invertebrates, et cetera, that means that a Niger Trigger, that feeds on nothing but plankton and sponges in the wild, will do the same? And since Gymnothorax will consume fishes, that means that Echidna and Gymnomuraena will too? Bah-loney.
-Nemo- and Whyne; I respect your right to an opinion, but frankly, it's ignorant. In addition, why is a fish being eaten in aquaria any different from the same fish being eaten in the wild?
-Lynden
-Nemo- and Whyne; I respect your right to an opinion, but frankly, it's ignorant. In addition, why is a fish being eaten in aquaria any different from the same fish being eaten in the wild?
Looks like you do to me...
-Lynden
-Nemo-
Build-A-Reef
Whoops. That was a mis-type.
Thats not what i'm talking about though. Those are two different kinds of triggers, which display different types of behavior. This case is different. The lionfish is the aggressive one, so regardless of the type of cardinal, the cardinal is going to be at rick to be hurt or killed.
Its different because personally i'd prefer all my fish to live and not be eaten.
And besides that, two fish being together that do not get along will probably cause stress, and possibly stress related diseases.
Lynden
a "fish hater"
I think I see your point, but I am afraid you are missing mine. I do not advocate keeping aggressive, stress-bringing animals together with peaceful ones; rather, I try to make people see that the fish that they thought were aggressive actually aren't.
Take the Niger Trigger (Odonus niger) for example. These animals are often though to be belligerent beasts since many of their relatives are. But in truth, Niger Triggers are peaceful animals that do not eat the vast majority of invertebrates an aquarist is likely to keep.
Next, puffers (Canthigaster). Now tell me, can you find, on any "fish website", the recommendation that these animals are well-suited for reef aquaria? Probably not; they will all say that they are fin nippers, corallivores, and generally a nuisance. But on Fishbase.org, an infinitely more reputable website than any fish retailer, I find that Canthigaster, with a few exceptions, are non-territorial fishes that feed mostly on algae. Now where, I ask you, could the general idea of these fishes being terrors have come from? Well, it just so happens that certain freshwater puffers, that the aquarist is likely to be more familiar with than Canthigaster, do in fact live up to this reputation. Thus, a blanket statement is created and established.
You may have inferred that there is a risk involved with keeping these fishes. The "exceptions" I call them. However, with a little more research, you will discover that there is a risk involved with nearly all reef fishes. How many times have you seen a tang that has gone "bad", or more commonly, a sixline wrasse or psuedochromis? If you have been involved in this hobby for years, like I have, then I can probably answer that question for you; a lot.
Lastly, I was not disagreeing with the fact that the cardinal was probably at risk; I was disagreeing with your "compatability chart" as it is not based on factual, scientific information. It's interesting how discussions can take root and grow.
-Lynden
Take the Niger Trigger (Odonus niger) for example. These animals are often though to be belligerent beasts since many of their relatives are. But in truth, Niger Triggers are peaceful animals that do not eat the vast majority of invertebrates an aquarist is likely to keep.
Next, puffers (Canthigaster). Now tell me, can you find, on any "fish website", the recommendation that these animals are well-suited for reef aquaria? Probably not; they will all say that they are fin nippers, corallivores, and generally a nuisance. But on Fishbase.org, an infinitely more reputable website than any fish retailer, I find that Canthigaster, with a few exceptions, are non-territorial fishes that feed mostly on algae. Now where, I ask you, could the general idea of these fishes being terrors have come from? Well, it just so happens that certain freshwater puffers, that the aquarist is likely to be more familiar with than Canthigaster, do in fact live up to this reputation. Thus, a blanket statement is created and established.
You may have inferred that there is a risk involved with keeping these fishes. The "exceptions" I call them. However, with a little more research, you will discover that there is a risk involved with nearly all reef fishes. How many times have you seen a tang that has gone "bad", or more commonly, a sixline wrasse or psuedochromis? If you have been involved in this hobby for years, like I have, then I can probably answer that question for you; a lot.
Lastly, I was not disagreeing with the fact that the cardinal was probably at risk; I was disagreeing with your "compatability chart" as it is not based on factual, scientific information. It's interesting how discussions can take root and grow.
-Lynden
???
Lynden
a "fish hater"
http
/www.fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSum...eciesname=niger
Hmm.. your fish and your friend's fish have both deviated from their natural behaviour. Clearly, mine wasn't the rare one.
I simply cannot imagine those triggers eating snails (except for maybe Nassarius)... their mouths aren't designed for it. Are you certain that it wasn't something else killing the snails?
As for hermit crabs, maybe; but again their mouth isn't designed for it. It's like expecting a firefish to eat stony corals.
The shrimp is more plausible. There is a trick one needs to follow when introducing cleaner shrimp to a tank full of triggers; buy the shrimp first, buy them large and if the trigger was there first, introduce the shrimp at night. It is very easy for them to mistake a shrimp for food if it is dumped into the aquarium as... if... it... were... food.
Any fish can make this mistake.
-Lynden
/www.fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSum...eciesname=nigerHmm.. your fish and your friend's fish have both deviated from their natural behaviour. Clearly, mine wasn't the rare one.
I simply cannot imagine those triggers eating snails (except for maybe Nassarius)... their mouths aren't designed for it. Are you certain that it wasn't something else killing the snails?
As for hermit crabs, maybe; but again their mouth isn't designed for it. It's like expecting a firefish to eat stony corals.
The shrimp is more plausible. There is a trick one needs to follow when introducing cleaner shrimp to a tank full of triggers; buy the shrimp first, buy them large and if the trigger was there first, introduce the shrimp at night. It is very easy for them to mistake a shrimp for food if it is dumped into the aquarium as... if... it... were... food.
Any fish can make this mistake.-Lynden
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