Can't Breathe

[tauaru]

Request Help

Tank size:50 us gallons (tall)
pH: unknown (local source is 6.3-8.2)
ammonia: tested acceptable
nitrite: tested acceptable
nitrate: tested acceptable
kH: please tell me what this means
gH: please tell me what this means
tank temp:normally 78 degrees F (25C); currently 86 degrees (30C)

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): All fish and ghost shrimp are gasping for air, schoolers and cichlids have their mouths to the surface

Volume and Frequency of water changes: 50% weekly

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: Melafix to repair fin damage

Tank inhabitants: 3 Mesonauta festivus (Festivum), 5 Bedotia geayi (Madagascar Rainbow Fish), 1 Carinotetraodon travancoricus (BB or Dwarf Pufferfish), 4 Botia Striata (Zebra Loach), 2 Hemiloricaria sp. (Red Lizard Catfish), 1 tetra (bandera tetra), 1 guppy

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): Italian Val (2 weeks), Malaysian driftwood (today), Bedotia Geayi (today).

Exposure to chemicals: none

No Rocks - Onyx sand and Silica Sand mixed substrate

Tank has been running for 6 years

No major events in tank (other than this lowering of Oxygen level, please read below)

Filter: Fluval 404 canister with bio beads and assorted other biological media, no carbon, no chemical

I am in Phoenix Arizona, United States.

Here is the story:

Recently I noticed a major problem with the Oxygen levels in the tank. After three subsequent water changes, I have nailed it down to the interesting concept that my O levels are lowest immediately after a water change. I think this is due to the high temperature of the water that comes out of the tap here in Phoenix. I believe that hot water hold less O than cooler water, the water comes out at around 85-90 degrees Fahrenheit (29-32 celsius). I am not sure if my thinking is correct, please let me know.

In the meantime I have added more Italian Val, and an airstone immediately after water changes. Any other methods of quickly oxygenating depleted water would be appreciated, I may have to truck in gallons of cooled RO water until the temp drops...

 

[TylerFerretLord]

It probably is the hot water.

Why not use icecubes to cool it until you put it in?

 

[tauaru]

It probably is the hot water.

Why not use icecubes to cool it until you put it in?

Not enough ice cubes to make a difference. In my smaller tanks that works though.

 

[TylerFerretLord]

If you have air conditioning, try placing the bucket in front of it for a while.

 

[poopsydrew]

Ok first off, What are the EXACT readings not just tested acceptable, that said it is probably the high temps as mentioned. I hope you are not pouring this water into the tank at 85-90 degrees, that would obviously not be a smart move at all. I hate to ask but in trying to solve your problem...You are matching the temps right? You are also using a dechlorinator right? ok with that said the airstone should help some, the more the better for now. Something breaking the surface area of the water would allow better oxygenation. Yes you are right Temperature and oxygen levels in water have a negative correlation, when temp rises oxygen drops. 86 is pretty high. I Wouldnt reccomend putting ice cubes directly in there (obviously for chlorine reasons) but plastic bag is fine, if you dont have enough ice cubes im sure anything frozen and then double bagged in a plastic bag and floated in the tank will surely bring the temp down. Make sure you use dont drop it too fast or you wiill stress them. I also wouldnt move it in front of any kind of air vent, as it is always reccomended to place tanks away from these. The best way to get it oxygenated is getting the temp down and breaking the surface area with water that is the same temperature like from a hob filter or powerhead. Good luck and could you please give us your exact stats for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

Drew

 

[tauaru]

I'd love to give exact stats but do not have them. Perhaps you could buy me better testing equipment as being told acceptable by my local fish geek is good enough for me. Do you think I should own test equipment? I haven't for six years and every time I have had a water sample tested (once a year after initial cycling and everytime I have moved the tank) for free at my local store the results have simply been acceptable I never thought to ask what the numbers were.

Meanwhile, you would be perfect answer the questions I posed in the help request namely what is gH and kH how do I test those?.

I read once that Methylene Blue can be used to raise oxygen levels but am loathe to add chemicals besides dechlorinator. Do you think it'd be useful.

This is the first time I have heard of Temperature matching besides the floating of bag of new fish so they can adjust. That makes sense though, an eight degree temperature raise would stress the fish. That seals it, I am trucking in water for the next few months.

Thanks for the help!

 

[poopsydrew]

I'd love to give exact stats but do not have them. Perhaps you could buy me better testing equipment as being told acceptable by my local fish geek is good enough for me. Do you think I should own test equipment? I haven't for six years and every time I have had a water sample tested (once a year after initial cycling and everytime I have moved the tank) for free at my local store the results have simply been acceptable I never thought to ask what the numbers were.

Meanwhile, you would be perfect answer the questions I posed in the help request namely what is gH and kH how do I test those?.

I read once that Methylene Blue can be used to raise oxygen levels but am loathe to add chemicals besides dechlorinator. Do you think it'd be useful.

This is the first time I have heard of Temperature matching besides the floating of bag of new fish so they can adjust. That makes sense though, an eight degree temperature raise would stress the fish. That seals it, I am trucking in water for the next few months.

Thanks for the help!

I hope you are being just a little sarcastic and not rude with some of your comments as I am trying to help you. I will assume you were only kidding about me buying you a fish test kit as this is something everyone who keeps fish should have, not to mention someone who has had them for 6 years! And yea, I would ask them the exact stats. I think the kh and gh are the hardness and buffering capacity of the water. You can buy test strips or kits for these at any lfs. I have never heard of anyone using chemicals to raise oxygen and would highly advise against it. So i guess the answer to my question is yes you dechlorinate...and no you dont match the temperature? This is an amateur move and should be changed immediatley. You need to make sure you match the temp every time you add new water. No need to truck in water, just let the water cool before adding it, use a thermometer to check it. And I would strongly advise knowing your own ph also. Hope that answered all your questions.

Drew

 

[Tolak]

General hardness is gH, carbonate hardness is kH. Yes, you should have a test kit, the API master kit tests everything you will need, and is around $20 online.

Acceptable to many shops often isn't acceptable, they often think slight levels off ammonia and nitrite are acceptable. Warmer or more often cooler water changes are an old trick for getting fish to spawn, I've done 50% water changes with water that is 8-10F different either way. Just by doing a water change you are increasing the O2 level by disturbing the water surface, where O2 tranfer occurs.

What are you using to treat the replacement water, and what is your procedure for filter & other maintenance? Often fish gasping at the surface indicates elevated nitrites, which inhibit a fish's ability to process O2, and will look like a low O2 level problem. This is where actual test numbers are needed.

 

[ArauraDiscus]

Acceptable will vary from person to person. YOU NEED TO TELL US exactly what the readings are. Gasping for air is more commonly a sign of ammonia poisoning as if you have an overhead filter, you should have plenty of oxygenation in the tank. If you have a canister, fluidized bed filter, or any of the sort, they often remove the oxygen, so you will need to add airstones if you have a filter like that. If not, you likely have ammonia or some chemical poisoning.

 

[-germ-]

Dechlorinate your ice cubes...
Non toxic container, water in, dechlorintor in, refrigerate before water change.
A fan blowing directly on to the waters surface of your tank is an extremely good short term solution, as well as mildly cooling the tank water it will add to the surface disturbance. As used for hillstream loaches on hot days.

 

[-germ-]

Or diluted hydrogen peroxide in severe emergencies;
Although probably too late, how are your fish? Anyway...
1-2ml of 3% solution per 10litres, diluted with tank water, dispersed rapidly via power filter or stirring. Risky though.

 

[Scunny]

I had fish gasping for air at the surface before, and when i tested my ammonia it was 6.0ppm. Somehow i didnt lose any of the fish.

I dont know what your LFS is like or anything...but would it be possible that their not actualy testing your water and just saying its acceptable?

Good Luck