Can The Addition Of Living Plants Raise Ammonia Levels?

[Aquatony]

Hey everyone,
 
So I have been working on my little 10 gallon tank, getting the kinks worked out, so that we have our stuff together for when we inevitably upgrade to a larger tank.
 
Up until Sunday, when I added a Brazilian Pennywort plant (which my fish DO like, btw, they stay near it a lot and use it for concealment), the parameters for the tank were
 
Ammonia, 0
Nitrites, 0
Nitrates 5ppm
pH 6.4
 
Today I checked the water.
 
Ammonia has risen to .25ppm
Nitrites hold steady at 0
Nitrates hold steady at 5
pH has skyrocketed in alkalinity to 7.6
 
So what's the deal? The fish are the same, 4 neon tetras and 1 cory cat, well understocked and our feeding is exactly the same every day. I know this, because we weigh the flakes before we add them to the tank (I know, I am a nerd, I do wear a white coat at work) so I'm thinking, the only change was the plant. I understand that all decaying living things will cause an increase in ammonia; however, the plant is alive and well, I carefully inspected it just now, all of it is lush and green, no brown, no dead areas, no falling leaves.
 
Obviously i am concerned that the ammonia reading isn't a flat zero as it has been for months prior to adding the plant. I am torn because the plant is beautiful in the tank and the fish are obviously, thus far, no worse for wear. All the tetras swarm the plant and swim circles around it, swim close to the leaves, etc. and the cory settles on the driftwood piece just under the plant. There is no gasping for air at the surface, no tell tale signs of stressed fish.
 
I'm confused! Is a 10gal tank just too small for a plant like this one? My knowledge of chemistry is broad but my knowledge of chemistry in a fish tank is much less so.
 
Tony
 
 

 

[DoubleDutch]

That's not logical. Using ferts ?

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[Byron]

Aquatic plants take up ammonia/ammonium as their preferred source of nitrogen.  There are a few (according to scientific studies) that take up nitrate before ammonia/ammonium, but they are few and Pennywort is not one of them.  But regardless of that, plants do not release ammonia/ammonium, except through decaying leaves/stems/roots as you mention.
 
From your information this tank has been running for months, so we are obviously not entangled in some cycling issue.  Frankly, I cannot explain the ammonia, and it is not high enough that I would worry.  I am wondering if it is connect to the sudden rise in pH.  This is certainly of more concern, and this must be pinned down.  I believe I saw this in another thread (?) so I won't interfere now.  But do sort this out.
 
The fish preferring the area around the plants is exactly what one would expect.  Forest fish, which includes most of the fish we keep in aquaria, require an environment providing lots of cover, especially from overhead light.  They will be more "relaxed" the dimmer the light.  Pennywort is a lovely polant if left floating, so once the present stems reach the surface, you can allow some or all of them to continue to grow along the surface.  Lower leaves may die off, receiving less light, as the plants put their resources into the leaves closer to the light; keeping a couple of stems planted and other distinct stems floating is one way to solve this.
 
Edit:  DoubleDutch may have hit on something...if ammonia is present in plant additives, perhaps this may show?  But even this is puzzling, as the level in fertilizers is likely to be very minimal (there is usually more than sufficient ammonia for plants with fish present), and even so I am doubtful our hobby tests are accurate enough to pick this up.  But it is a thought.
 
Byron.

 

[Aquatony]

That's not logical. Using ferts ?

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I did add 2 mL Seachem Flourish on 23 Aug 16. I titrated the dose amount for the size of the tank.
 
Is that the culprit?
Byron, the tank's pH was low (from the other thread) which was of concern. It was a great deal more acidic. Now it is much more basic, unfortunately would've preferred it somewhere balanced and neutral around 7, right? Went from slightly acidic to slightly basic.

 

[DoubleDutch]

I thought a trace of ammonium, but that isn't in Flourish to.my believe

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[Byron]

 

That's not logical. Using ferts ?

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I did add 2 mL Seachem Flourish on 23 Aug 16. I titrated the dose amount for the size of the tank.
 
Is that the culprit?

Byron, the tank's pH was low (from the other thread) which was of concern. It was a great deal more acidic. Now it is much more basic, unfortunately would've preferred it somewhere balanced and neutral around 7, right? Went from slightly acidic to slightly basic.
 

 
Given the fish, keeping the pH (or having it) below 7 is much better.  Characins are soft water fish preferring a pH on the acidic side (below 7), to varying degrees depending upon species, so a slightly acidic pH is never going to cause trouble for soft water fish (there are as always exceptions, just so I don't get hammered, but neons are not one of them).  If the pH was naturally around the low 6's, I would be very satisifed.  My tanks run from below 5 to low 6's, depending upon the tank and the fish.
 
What is the tap water pH?  Remember to out-gas the CO2 with tap water before testing.  The aquarium water can be tested anytime without this.  But always test at approximately the same time each day if you test daily; there is a normal diurnal fluctuation in pH that is no problem, it occurs in nature too.  But you do not want the pH fluctuation from below 7 to above 7.

I thought a trace of ammonium, but that isn't in Flourish to.my believe

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According to the ingredients listed, Flourish Comprehensive Supplement contains nitrogen in both the forms ammonium and nitrate.  But very little, "not significant" in Seachem's own words.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Just to chime in with my two cents worth here.
 
I wonder if you have tested the tap water for ammonia?
 
The jump in pH from 6.4 up to 7.6 is a little concerning but not overly so.
Makes me wonder if you have added in any new decor, substrate or rocks into the tank recently?
 
And last thing am going to ask, what kind of test kit do you use for these results?
 
I find that sometimes I get false readings as well as from other keepers that they get  an unexplained reading of 0.25ppm from test kits. This could be down to a number of things, test vials not properly cleaned, contamination of water test such as taking a sample of water from the surface of tank (surface water can include scum, floating debris etc) rather than taking water from at least a couple inches under the water surface for a more conclusive test, shaking vial with finger over top of vial and not using the cap so that are all sorts of reasons why one may get a false reading but at the same time must be certain its a false reading rather than a geniune reading.
 
Have to mention, most fish can cope with 0.25ppm of ammonia easily enough short term so am not unduly worried about this reading as long as it stays very low.

 

[Aquatony]

Thank guys.

Byron, the tap water is 7.2, and that is as-tested AND from the municipality water report.

Charlie, a good idea actually, I went ahead and got two test tubes from API and checked tap water vs. aquarium water. They both were exactly the same color, both showing 0.25ppm~ ammonia. I wonder, if perhaps the water is just like that, OR is maybe I am not doing a good job cleaning the test tubes. I usually soak them in hot water and then rinse with DI like we do in the lab. I am tempted just to buy more 10mL vials though to avoid the issue. I always shake the test tube with my finger covering and never use the cap. I also use a Pipette in the tank so as to remove the possibility of surface issues. I usually take 2.5mL from one side of the tank, approx 4" below surface, and 2.5mL from the other, approx 4" below surface.

I have the Freshwater master kit (drip) from API.

Aside from possible test tube contamination through improper cleaning I do suppose that the water could just show a 0.25ppm ammonia regardless. The fish appear just fine (for what that's worth) with no odd behaviors at all. The nitrite count is 0 (if we can trust the API kit at this point) and nitrates show between 5ppm and 10ppm slightly between the colors. Still running a solid 78.5* Fahrenheit.

I am probably way over-thinking this. Perhaps even the Pipette is the problem, I have two of them: one for tap water testing and one for aquarium water testing.

Thanks for both of your continued assistance in my journey through this process.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Just curious but what kind of filter do you have on this tank? Inhad a marineland biowheel at one point on my 20 gallon. I have private well water and it always tests at 0.25 ppm for ammonia. My tank was doing the same until I bought some small ceramic media to put in it. Then it was always just between 0 and .25. niw I have a canister that still has ceramic media other than sponges and it's pretty much at 0 now. My little 5 gallon that I have a mini canister on(only sponges in it) tests for the .25 ammonia and I am going to put ceramic media in it to see if it helps. The stuff I got is by national geographic and they are little balls. Small size for small filters but petsmart is getting rid of them.

 

[Byron]

Thank guys. Byron, the tap water is 7.2, and that is as-tested AND from the municipality water report. Charlie, a good idea actually, I went ahead and got two test tubes from API and checked tap water vs. aquarium water. They both were exactly the same color, both showing 0.25ppm~ ammonia. I wonder, if perhaps the water is just like that, OR is maybe I am not doing a good job cleaning the test tubes. I usually soak them in hot water and then rinse with DI like we do in the lab. I am tempted just to buy more 10mL vials though to avoid the issue. I always shake the test tube with my finger covering and never use the cap. I also use a Pipette in the tank so as to remove the possibility of surface issues. I usually take 2.5mL from one side of the tank, approx 4" below surface, and 2.5mL from the other, approx 4" below surface. I have the Freshwater master kit (drip) from API. Aside from possible test tube contamination through improper cleaning I do suppose that the water could just show a 0.25ppm ammonia regardless. The fish appear just fine (for what that's worth) with no odd behaviors at all. The nitrite count is 0 (if we can trust the API kit at this point) and nitrates show between 5ppm and 10ppm slightly between the colors. Still running a solid 78.5* Fahrenheit. I am probably way over-thinking this. Perhaps even the Pipette is the problem, I have two of them: one for tap water testing and one for aquarium water testing. Thanks for both of your continued assistance in my journey through this process.

 
On the ammonia, it is possible to have ammonia in tap water (nitrite and nitrate are also possible, you should test tap water for all three).  If it is minimal as here, I would not worry.  You could use a conditioner that detoxifies ammonia to deal with the initial influx; after a few hours, the bacteria and/or plants will easily handle this.  Most if not all conditioners that detoxify ammonia do so by changing ammonia to ammonium which is harmless.  Both will show as "ammonia" with the API and most other test kits.  The other thing is that with acidic water, ammonia changes to ammonium anyway, so if the tank water remains below 7 this is even less of an issue.
 
Never use your finger to "cap" a test tube, always the cap.  Skin has properties that can easily affect the test, esp with pH, but others too.
 
Re tap water pH, you don't confirm you out-gassed any possible CO2.  The pH may lower in an aquarium, this is a natural process, but it is not going to rise unless something is affecting it.  Calcareous substances (rock, gravel, sand, decor composed of calcium, magnesium, coral, dolomite, aragonite, marble, shells) can increase GH and pH.  Plant additives/substrates may, but less likely.  The problem is that the pH of 6.4 rose to 7.6 and I am assuming fairly rapidly.  This is not at all normal or good, and I would want to pin down the reason.  It is of course possible the tap water pH varies, due to the source of the water or additives by the water authority.
 
Byron.

 

[Aquatony]

 

Just curious but what kind of filter do you have on this tank? Inhad a marineland biowheel at one point on my 20 gallon. I have private well water and it always tests at 0.25 ppm for ammonia. My tank was doing the same until I bought some small ceramic media to put in it. Then it was always just between 0 and .25. niw I have a canister that still has ceramic media other than sponges and it's pretty much at 0 now. My little 5 gallon that I have a mini canister on(only sponges in it) tests for the .25 ammonia and I am going to put ceramic media in it to see if it helps. The stuff I got is by national geographic and they are little balls. Small size for small filters but petsmart is getting rid of them.

 

It's a Biowheel filter for the Marineland kit. I believe Penguin makes it. it is probably the same exact filter + media that you used.

Interesting that you always get that 0.25ppm test. My main concern is that, prior to a couple days ago, it was 0ppm from the tank.

Byron, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean by out-gassing CO2 from the tap water. Could you explain that in more detail?

I will go back to using the cap, although it didn't seem to change much, I did wash my hands thoroughly prior.

When I get back home I will re-test the parameters.

Byron, any thoughts on cleaning of test tubes in between the tests, what is your normal method?

 

[Aquatony]

Also, I just got home, and did a pH test. Using two API vials and a Pipette. Both water at 78.5 degrees F.

The blue, ~7.2-7.4 pH water was from the tap.

The yellow/pale color, ~6.0-6.2, was from the tank. So it appears that now the water is no longer so basic in the tank!

The 0.25ppm ammonia test still holds, across 4 vials and using 2 different methods of collecting water from the aquarium. But I did not "out gas" CO2 from tap yet not quite sure about that one.

 

[Aquatony]

Byron, do you mean just letting the tap water sit out for a couple hours before using the reagent on it?

 

[cowgirluntamed]

It's a Biowheel filter for the Marineland kit. I believe Penguin makes it. it is probably the same exact filter + media that you used.
Interesting that you always get that 0.25ppm test. My main concern is that, prior to a couple days ago, it was 0ppm from the tank.
Byron, I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean by out-gassing CO2 from the tap water. Could you explain that in more detail?

I stopped using the media cartridges for it after I found I could cut sponges for it for way cheaper and that you don't need carbon all the time. I had tried the marineland mix of the carbon and ammonia neutralizer blend, then just did the ammonia one. This still kept testing at 0.25 but was "supposed" to be ammonium. How true it was, not sure. So...i finally took that out and added some ceramic bioballs from national geographic information it's in media bag and stuck it in there. It worked! More places for good bacteria to grow and be able to deal with my ammonia.

As for my tap, not a clue. Its well water so yeah. Just happens naturally in it. Not much I can do until it hits the tanks and is dealt with.

In the outgassing, you either let it sit out for 24 hours or you can shake it vigorously for a few minutes(unsure how long exactly as I just let it sit).

 

[Aquatony]

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