Bubblenests

[Haiku]

I'm just wondering about this. I've always read and heard that a bubblenest means a happy betta/content betta, but some seem to use this as an indicator in perhaps a misleading way. For example, someone who had a betta in a wonderful 10g tank with filter current slowed and lots of plants etc was worried because their betta didn't bubblenest, and they took this to be an indicator that their betta wasn't happy. Another person who kept their betta in a tiny bowl shrugged off suggestions of a betta not being happy in that situation because he was building big bubblenests. Sometimes bettas in those tiny cups in the pet stores will be working on bubblenests.

Could the ones in pet stores be doing that because they are constantly seeing rivals all around them, and become territorial, instinctually preparing for breeding?

Someone else mentioned their sick betta (who later passed on) was bubblenesting while sick. So I just really wonder about the bubblenest = happy correlation. Of course I think some bettas who are bubblenesting are definitely happy and healthy, but that it doesn't become some proven formula with which to judge that the betta is healthy and happy and in an ideal situation. I really hate it when I see people use the fact that their betta is bubblenesting to be justification for leaving him in a cramped and tiny home.

 

[BettasRFriends]

Haiku you got a point there. I've also been wondering if bubblenest truly meant that your fish is contented. Is this a proven fact?

 

[eudielynn]

Maybe "happy" is not the right word. It just goes to the little guys credit that they can be very adaptable and sort of make the best of a bad situation.

 

[BettasRFriends]

But the problem still remains...why a bubblenest? It couldn't be for a female. It might be, like Haiku says, a sign of territorial. But that also has a problem because in a certain lfs that i've been to, the smaller cups betta did not have any bubblenest but those in a larger container did build a bubblenest. Isn't it possible that the bigger container (at a certain size) the male would build a bubblnest?

 

[abstract]

IMO it all comes down to instinct...when they feel like they should they do, when they feel like they shouldnt they dont....

when they are suffering from poor conditions their instinct tells them to survive, not to build a nest to reproduce.....

when they have no other cares in the world, instinct says conditions are right, so build a bubblenest and breed..

just my 2 cents

 

[Haiku]

when they are suffering from poor conditions their instinct tells them to survive, not to build a nest to reproduce.....

when they have no other cares in the world, instinct says conditions are right, so build a bubblenest and breed..

I think that is true in some cases, but not every case. This is based off what I have seen personally. I've gone into PetsMart and have seen bettas in teeny tiny cups, some looking sickly, but nevertheless working on a bubblenest in between furiously flaring the bettas in cups all around them. It almost appears an act of desperation. Someone recently related that their betta with dropsy was building a bubblenest and this betta was dead the next day. I think some bettas have particularly strong instincts for survival and perpetuating their species, and will strive towards this end even if they are not doing well. I just am starting to rethink that bubblenesting always means a betta that is doing well.

 

[BettaMomma]

You do have a point. Also though, from what I've seen, any time conditions have been improved - something like adding a heater, giving them a new toy or seomthing fun in their tank, the temps have become steady and don't fluctuate, they've been healed from a disease, etc., the nests start to appear.

Charlie has been sick for a while now - he's not built a bubblenest in a while either. He used to build them quite frequently.
Jack makes them at home always - there's never a point in time when he's not got one going - and he's off in a room pretty much by himself for hours on end. We go visit him and feed him, and pay him some attention but he seems to love being in his little tank. He's very healthy and comfortable.

When I moved Archie into his half of the big 10G tank from the little 2G tank, where his temps didn't fluctuate anymore, I found the biggest bubblenest I had seen from him in... well, forever.

I think it's a couple of things - they have instincts that tell them when to make them, but on top of that, they make them when they feel better than they have in a while. that's just kind of my perception of it

 

[abstract]

yea i suppose that even goes along with what i said....even if the water isn't in good condition, the bettas instinct may be telling him to build a bubblenest so that he can pass on his genes before he dies....interesting...

EDIT: post directed towards Haiku's statement.....was typing it before you responded BM

 

[Haiku]

Those are good points too BettaMomma. I'd definitely, in that case, see it as a sign that the betta is more content and feeling better. I think a lot of times it can be taken as a good sign. I just don't like in some situations how people think that not building a nest is necessarily a sign of unhappiness, or that because they built a bubblenest in 1/2 a cup of water that they are just fine as they are.

 

[OohFeeshy]

Its odd really. When I got Vespasian (my yellow guy) I put him in the community with the cories. He was getting blown about a bit, so a few days later I put him in a 3g. In the 3g, he got really depressed and just lay around on the bottom all day. He did make a big bubblenest once though. So I put him back in the 20g, hes a lot happier now. And Hannibal has only ever made one bubblenest, he's in a 3g but is perfectly happy.

 

[BettaMomma]

I just don't like in some situations how people think that not building a nest is necessarily a sign of unhappiness, or that because they built a bubblenest in 1/2 a cup of water that they are just fine as they are.

I completely agree.
Since the day I bought sick little Jasper, he's never once made even one tiny bubble - let alone a bubble nest. I know he feels good now that he's totally healthy again, gets fed great, is plenty warm, has 2.5 gallons of sparkly clean water to roam freely in - I'm pretty darn sure he's happy. And I don't even need a nest to prove it to me.

In fact, of all 8 of my boys, the only ones that do make nests are Jack, Archie and now Six. And I'm pretty sure that they're all happy and in good conditions.

 

[mm_simb]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned before but could bubblenesting with bettas be compared to purring with cats? Cats don't only purr when they are happy. They've also been known to purr when they are dying or great deal of pain. I'm not sure if it would be the same thing with bettas.
I have a friend who keeps his betta in a 10 gallon and hardly ever cleans the water. I'm sure he cleans the water every 2-3 months and he just does 100% water change. His betta does bubblenests but I highly doubt he is happy. Of course he doesn't have a filter running so that would make a betta content to not have a current but I'm sure he doesn't appreciate the nasty water. Although sometimes he makes me feel like his betta is happier than mine because of the bubblenesting.

 

[FishEnthusiast]

I can't believe I am going to tell this story, it is so embarrassing in light of what I know now. I got a betta last summer. I put him in a large bowl, but it wasn't very deep, maybe 2". He spent every day swimming the entire circumfrence of the bowl and the very top and bubblenesting incessently. Needless to say, I went camping for the weekend and the lady looking after my pets discovered my poor betta in my laundry basket.

It is obvious he wasn't happy, nor was he in good conditions. I feel so bad about that. If I had only found TFF last year he might still be alive

I agree with mm on this one, it probably can be akin to a cat purring. My poor betta was very unhappy and bubblenested all day. Of the four bettas I have now, only one bubblenests and I am quite sure they are happy.

 

[Kiarra]

Males DO in fact compete over bubblenests. I have over 40 Bettas here, most of them male, and I've noticed that two males will work on their bubbelenests at the same time, go over and flare at each other, then run back to the nest and work on. They love competing over who can build the biggest, most impressive bubblenest. You can also see this particular behavior in a decent store if you watch the right boys, because not all males will do this.

 

[MAM]

I think you're on to something here. Building a bubble nest doesn't necessarily mean the betta is happy. But it can. Its like people and smiling, we smile when we're happy, but we also smile when we're being devious, when we're nervous, when we're scared, etc. Its a form of expression. Bubble nesting may just be a reaction to something, the betta is expressing himself. It could be instinct taking over for survivals sake as said, it could be territorial thing (or a dominance thing, which could explain why not all males on a shelf together bubble nest, like how the dominant dog will mount, even if its a fixed male or even a female dog). It could just be a contented thing, it could be boredom thing (nothing to do, nowhere to go, guess I'll build a bubble nest).
Bet someone out there has done a thesis on this............................