Big rocks

[Wills]

In my ever lasting impossible dream tank I'm going to be doing an Mbuna tank so I need a lot of rocks... and that is proving harder than I was hoping to do at a reasonable cost. The tank is a 4 foot 75 gallon tank so I want quite a few and I'd like a few that are quite big, quite open to shapes and textures but I would like black or dark grey and I don't really want slate...

My local LFS don't have anything like the quantity or variety I'm after but I have had a look, a lot are very low stock so maybe soon they'll get more? I've been to Horizon Aquatics and Pro Shrimp, Horizon had a lot of small medium rocks in a variety of types but the cost of building enough would be a lot... they did have some big Wild Rhino, Hakai and Frodo Stone which would fill the tank quickly but working out super expensive. Pro Shrimp had an interesting range called Ogami Island Stone, this was quite a good price and they had some really big bits at £18 per rock, medium was £8 per rock and then smaller ones were £4 per kg - so pricey but doable... The only issue with this rock is that they are quite flat and hard to stand up, but basically reminded me of Wild Rhino Stone, for anyone into high-end aquascapes. I think this is the front-runner at the moment... but not 100%

This is the Ogami Island Stone

I've been round a load of garden centres too and so little options its really surprising! I think rockeries are well and truly out of fashion! B&Q and Homebase both only sell stones online now and just gravel and pebbles in store - there are online retailers but they only sell by the pallet!

I've found these big white boulders for £8 each and I've seen smaller cobbles so you could put something together but noticed the 'brand' of these was called Kelkay and looked on their website they do pretty much exactly what I want which is called Black Mountain stone but no where near me seemingly sells it! I've found a few places down south that sell it at £5 per rock online!! But will only do pallet delivery which is £50-£70, which if I bought 5 with delivery still makes them probably per £ the cheapest!! I could then find some smaller black aquascaping rock to go with it - couple of options in the Wio and Hugo Kamishi ranges... maybe thats my answer, which feels bizarre but.

But has anyone else got any ideas of how to do it? I'm a bit against foraging as the quantity I want would probably impact a habitat, plus its not without risks.

If anyone in the UK has seen anything good at any of the other chains - Wickes, MKM, Travis Perkins etc let me know too

Wils

 

[Aiken Drum]

Pro Shrimp is in mansfield isnt it? Wharf aquatics isnt too far away from there, they usually have a good selection of rocks, but it can vary depending on if they have just had delivery as you mention. I would expect Pro Shrimp to have the better choice locally though.

 

[Wills]

Pro Shrimp is in mansfield isnt it? Wharf aquatics isnt too far away from there, they usually have a good selection of rocks, but it can vary depending on if they have just had delivery as you mention. I would expect Pro Shrimp to have the better choice locally though.

You just described my Friday I went to Pro Shrimp first and then onto Wharf - some big bits of slate and medium-sized river boulders. Some Seriyu stone in at normal size/price but they did have one big bit in for £120... just cant do it haha!

Pro Shrimp was really good though, will definitely be going back. I go to Wharf quite a bit so good to find it so close (20/30 mins). They had a lot of rocks upto about 30cm in one dimension but none of the larger sizes that I'm after.

I think its between the smooth stones from Pro Shrimp or ordering some of the Black Mountain Stone online and making do with what I get... I think both will work out about the same cost, the Black Mountain might be a bit cheaper even though I'm paying for delivery, which just feels weird.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Ive got rocks from blue lagoon aquatics in the scotland nursery garden centre at tansley before. Cant remember what their selection was like. Probably not too great, but they did let me look through through the brochure of their wholeseller to see if they could get in what i wanted. Being a garden centre they might also have some landscaping rocks. It looks like you might be better looking for rockery supplies rather than aquarium supplies, but you are then into buying a whole pallet. You could maybe sell on what you dont use.

Are pro shrimp allowing people to turn up off the street now or do you still need an appointment? Not sure if the appointment was just a pandemic thing.

 

[jaylach]

I don't know your stores by name so may have already tried this. Have you looked at any garden centers or hardware stores with a garden center?

 

[TNG]

I use basalt in my cichlid tank. It’s inert and is used for road construction here, so readily available where I live.

The pile on the left has been in the tank for a long time, one on the right is a recent addition, you can see the rock colours are different.

 

[Boundava]

I was going to suggest landscape supply stores, I have a couple around me that will allow someone to buy a small amount and charge by the bucket, but that is here in the states.

Hope you are able to find something to suit your needs. Are you planning on doing a rock wall? If so you maybe able to do a DIY background by carving some extruded foam and painting it with a latex concrete/masonry sealer that can be dyed with concrete pigments.

I did this recently with expanding pond foam, its black and I left it rough/unpainted after I carved it. I also made a background fir my 125 gallon Asian themed tanks a few years ago.I did this method before for a 75 gallon, but can't seem to find the photos.
Waterfall I built for my box turtle's water feature

The 125 gallon background in steps from fist to last

Does take a bit of painting, you want to get at least 3 solid coats of the sealer on before adding coloration. I had so much fun doing both of these projects.

 

[Boundava]

Oh I found it, this is the one where I carved each piece to make a ledge background and included some areas to pot plants.

then it turned into this

 

[jaylach]

I use basalt in my cichlid tank. It’s inert and is used for road construction here, so readily available where I live.

Personally, when I had larger cichlid tanks, I liked to build caves out of broken slate slabs. I'd just go to a garden center and ask for bulk broken slate and would get for next to nothing.

 

[Wills]

Ive got rocks from blue lagoon aquatics in the scotland nursery garden centre at tansley before. Cant remember what their selection was like. Probably not too great, but they did let me look through through the brochure of their wholeseller to see if they could get in what i wanted. Being a garden centre they might also have some landscaping rocks. It looks like you might be better looking for rockery supplies rather than aquarium supplies, but you are then into buying a whole pallet. You could maybe sell on what you dont use.

Are pro shrimp allowing people to turn up off the street now or do you still need an appointment? Not sure if the appointment was just a pandemic thing.

I am tempted to ask one of the garden centre/fish shops I use if they can order any different landscaping rocks... which might be an option - if I explain what its for I think they'd get it and they sell Mbuna too so I wouldnt be the only customer that would appreciate it.

I just turned up at Pro Shrimp and seemed ok - they are only open Monday to Friday though which is a bit of a shame but they are an online business I suppose - bit tricky to find too.

I use basalt in my cichlid tank. It’s inert and is used for road construction here, so readily available where I live.

The pile on the left has been in the tank for a long time, one on the right is a recent addition, you can see the rock colours are different.

I'd be interested in Basalt! I've seen this video before that uses it too and it looks great against the bright colours.

Love the look of your tank to! Would love to know more about it, what fish do you have in there?

Oh I found it, this is the one where I carved each piece to make a ledge background and included some areas to pot plants.
View attachment 315999
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then it turned into this
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Oh wow!! I hadn't thought of this at all!! I'd looked at the Aqua Decor backgrounds and rocks which are great obviously but (also obviously) very expensive...

Your work looks incredible though! I quite like the idea of making a set of 3-4 different sizes of rocks with a big total number. I suppose this wouldn't be heavy either would they? Which is another source of anxiety for me haha - putting a good 50kg of rock in a tank seems so risky... but others do it dont they.

I do like working with natural materials but I am also quite good at things like this (I'm a designer by trade). Are there any specific products you'd use for this kind of thing? Is it this sort of stuff for the foam? Pond foam What would you then use for the colours and sealing?

This tank

has inspired my choices for colours of hardscape and kit so far, though I might do a frosted background rather than a black one and possibly grey/black sand like the Tanganyika tank above. I could also do over hang rocks from top of the tank which would help me add in some terrestrial plants which is also something I've wanted to do... I really hadn't considered this side of things but starting to think this is the answer for what I want to do...

Pros - saves a lot of cash, change for fun and creativity, unique to me
Cons - unnatural materials, bit time-consuming (but probably less so than trawling around garden centres and builders merchants to find stuff...)

Thank you for this - just the inspiration I needed!

I don't know your stores by name so may have already tried this. Have you looked at any garden centers or hardware stores with a garden center?

Personally, when I had larger cichlid tanks, I liked to build caves out of broken slate slabs. I'd just go to a garden center and ask for bulk broken slate and would get for next to nothing.

I've been having a look everywhere but can't find much other than slate, which could work but the sizes I want they tend to be a bit featureless. Some slates you get can have traces of heavy metals in too like Iron and Copper which is why people ue it a bit less these days - I used to use it a lot 10-15 years ago too.

Wills

 

[Boundava]

I'm not sure if you would have products similar to what I used since I just use our local hardware store. For the background I use the pink foam that is commonly used for insulating over here, it's not the expanded foam but the extruded foam.

For the waterfall feature I used the canned pond foam and just put it on a flat surface and after it got done expanding I carved rocks into it.

If you want to finish it up with the sealer you can use the masonry sealer. At least by me the masonry sealer comes in a couple different colors it comes in a white a gray and I believe now it comes in a brown and a black. I purchase the gray and then I just added concrete pigment to it that you can buy separately it's a dry powder pigment or if you have the availability to acrylic paint That is also water safe like regular craft paint that's acrylic. I use that as well especially when I was doing the bamboo background.

https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Barrel-PROMOABIII-Acrylic-2-Ounce/dp/B076CP6F36/ref=asc_df_B076CP6F36/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198061515308&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5876025488421998695&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021488&hvtargid=pla-386866589176&psc=1#

https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/6234e64c-15b4-4cb7-9d8e-14b0010bec0c/svn/gray-flat-drylok-concrete-sealers-27613-64_600.jpg

https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/282ae5f6-b25f-4153-a9a5-a02719975cec/svn/owens-corning-foam-board-insulation-36l-64_600.jpg

 

[Wills]

I'm not sure if you would have products similar to what I used since I just use our local hardware store. For the background I use the pink foam that is commonly used for insulating over here, it's not the expanded foam but the extruded foam.

For the waterfall feature I used the canned pond foam and just put it on a flat surface and after it got done expanding I carved rocks into it.
View attachment 316025
If you want to finish it up with the sealer you can use the masonry sealer. At least by me the masonry sealer comes in a couple different colors it comes in a white a gray and I believe now it comes in a brown and a black. I purchase the gray and then I just added concrete pigment to it that you can buy separately it's a dry powder pigment or if you have the availability to acrylic paint That is also water safe like regular craft paint that's acrylic. I use that as well especially when I was doing the bamboo background.

https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Barrel-PROMOABIII-Acrylic-2-Ounce/dp/B076CP6F36/ref=asc_df_B076CP6F36/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198061515308&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5876025488421998695&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021488&hvtargid=pla-386866589176&psc=1#

View attachment 316024

https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/6234e64c-15b4-4cb7-9d8e-14b0010bec0c/svn/gray-flat-drylok-concrete-sealers-27613-64_600.jpg

View attachment 316022

https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/282ae5f6-b25f-4153-a9a5-a02719975cec/svn/owens-corning-foam-board-insulation-36l-64_600.jpg

View attachment 316023

Thanks! That's really interesting I've used expanding foam for some stuff in the past (not fish stuff) and I'm hoping I can get something from the pond world that does the same kind of thing - I'm envisioning spraying a load into something like a big box, cutting it out and then carving the foam into the shapes I want. Then covering it in the cement mix, I largely want to just make big smooth black stones preferably with a bit of white marbling/veining to some of them (but I could live without that).

For the acrylic paints you used, do you not add a layer of something over the top of that or did you just leave that to the water?

I wonder if there is some kind of silicon I could use as the external layer? Something to help with the layer of concrete?

Wills

 

[Boundava]

I'm not sure if you would have products similar to what I used since I just use our local hardware store. For the background I use the pink foam that is commonly used for insulating over here, it's not the expanded foam but the extruded foam.

For the waterfall feature I used the canned pond foam and just put it on a flat surface and after it got done expanding I carved rocks into it.

If you want to finish it up with the sealer you can use the masonry sealer. At least by me the masonry sealer comes in a couple different colors it comes in a white a gray and I believe now it comes in a brown and a black. I purchase the gray and then I just added concrete pigment to it that you can buy separately it's a dry powder pigment or if you have the availability to acrylic paint That is also water safe like regular craft paint that's acrylic. I use that as well especially when I was doing the bamboo background.

https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Barrel-PROMOABIII-Acrylic-2-Ounce/dp/B076CP6F36/ref=asc_df_B076CP6F36/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198061515308&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5876025488421998695&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021488&hvtargid=pla-386866589176&psc=1#

View attachment 316024

https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/6234e64c-15b4-4cb7-9d8e-14b0010bec0c/svn/gray-flat-drylok-concrete-sealers-27613-64_600.jpg

View attachment 316022

https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/282ae5f6-b25f-4153-a9a5-a02719975cec/svn/owens-corning-foam-board-insulation-36l-64_600.jpg

View attachment 316023

Thanks! That's really interesting I've used expanding foam for some stuff in the past (not fish stuff) and I'm hoping I can get something from the pond world that does the same kind of thing - I'm envisioning spraying a load into something like a big box, cutting it out and then carving the foam into the shapes I want. Then covering it in the cement mix, I largely want to just make big smooth black stones preferably with a bit of white marbling/veining to some of them (but I could live without that).

For the acrylic paints you used, do you not add a layer of something over the top of that or did you just leave that to the water?

I wonder if there is some kind of silicon I could use as the external layer? Something to help with the layer of concrete?

Wills

No I was okay just putting the acrylic paint as the last layer it adhered pretty well to the other layers and did not flake it all

 

[TNG]

I'd be interested in Basalt! I've seen this video before that uses it too and it looks great against the bright colours.

Love the look of your tank to! Would love to know more about it, what fish do you have in there?

That's an excellent video, although I prefer to take an easy route and just pile rocks in the tank .

My tank is a 4’ - 50 Gal with Seachem Tidal 75. Stocked with “peaceful” Malawis: Yellow Labs, Peacocks, Pearl of Likoma, Yellow-Tail Acei, plus 2 river fish, Red Forest Jewels.

Looking forward to seeing your tank when it’s finished.

 

[Wills]

That's an excellent video, although I prefer to take an easy route and just pile rocks in the tank .

My tank is a 4’ - 50 Gal with Seachem Tidal 75. Stocked with “peaceful” Malawis: Yellow Labs, Peacocks, Pearl of Likoma, Yellow-Tail Acei, plus 2 river fish, Red Forest Jewels.

Looking forward to seeing your tank when it’s finished.

I'm fairly certain I'm going to stick to Mbuna but got quite a big list of fish I like - hoping to get 4-5 species maybe 6, advice so far has been 20-30 fish depending on who I talk to. Thinking if I did 2-4 species of true Mbuna and then an Acei and a Lab species it will help increase the numbers safely.

I've been getting really mixed feelings on how to go ahead with this tank mainly to do with the rocks. With it being a rimless tank on a frame-style stand bit panicked at the thought of putting in 50kg of rock in there... So I have been weighing up selling this second hand tank and going down another route but feels a bit of a faff...

I've been trying to work out how to make my own rocks as a lot of the common materials used seem to be from the US market and not available in the UK - Drylok for example. I've found this, which seems like it would work as a top coat, though I'm not sure how it would look underwater. https://antel.co.uk/products/a1-pond-paint The same company also does an epoxy concrete product in 5 litre tubs. My plan for this approach is/was to use expandable pond foam layered over a small rock, carved into shape, cover it in the epoxy concrete and then add some details with acrylic paint with a final layer of the pond paint.

The pond foam is £20 per tube (think I'd need 2), epoxy concrete is £30 for 5 litres which covers 500cm square to 5cm depth and the pond paint is £20 for 1 litre and is designed to coat a small pond.

I've also finally found a landscaping place not too far away that sells big black textural rocks, so there are some good options. They mainly specialise in selling online in crates of 50-70 rocks but I might ring them to see if I could buy 10 if I went to pick them up (and preferably pick them out in person).

But then (and I think this is my best option). I found these on Oliver Knotts store, which are called Coober Rocks from a brand called Hobby. The biggest one is about 30cm tall and 20x20cm wide/deep, the others two are about 20cm tall and 15x10cm wide/deep. All four sides are really different and I may be able to combine them in different ways so you can't tell - eg if I got 9 of them. I'm also hoping they look real enough so I might find a real rock (at a smaller size) - from the pictures I'm wondering about black lava rock or maybe dark seriyu stone? I've managed to also find these on Amazon and ordered a set of three (one of each) for £65 - if I like them I'll keep them and order more from Olli Betta but went with Amazon as I can return them easy if they are not right - they should be here by this Friday.

Wills