Betta Fish Help!

[heabrook]

I was hoping that someone could offer some advice for me. I rescued a betta fish about a year ago from a home that did not know how to take care of him.. he was pale, undernourished, etc. I brought him back to life and he is the nicest betta fish I have ever met. We just moved to Colorado (from AZ) and he's been fine here as well. But I decided to get a heater because it can get very cold here... I purchased a 2.5gal tank, some new rocks (mixed them with the old rocks) and a heater. Unfortunately, I didn't realize it at the time -- but I had purchased a heater that was too large of a watt for his tank.. it quickly heated up and he endured a huge temperature shift. The snail that I had in there started to secrete a strange slimey substance... Ian (my betta) started looking droopy.. we cleaned the water, took out the snail, and put him back. Still not good... we realized the heater wasn't right so we went back and purchased a better, more expensive heater. We transferred him to the bowl and kept the temperature at 72.. and he was doing great.. it was amazing. Then I purchased a plant (anachrias? the fish store said it would be fine for bettas....) and I put it in there.. it clouded up the water overnight and he started acting bad again. So we cleaned the water.. called the fish store and they said to make sure the plant isn't dead, clean the tank and the plant and put it back in so we did... but no real improvement in him. We are removing the plant and putting him in his fish bowl now (we had him in a large glass "goldfish" bowl before we transferred him to his new home) to see how he does.. I considered also purchasing some Stress Coat.

Here are his symptoms: turning very gray on his face/under his face... losing color in his body......... seems very listless.. he usually greets us with enthusiasm when we come near his tank... but he isn't doing that now... he just "sits" there..

Any advice?

Also.. the heater keeps it at 72 and it gets to about 75 at night because of the temp. in the house


we ALWAYS treat the water... actually, I don't know if it needs to be mentioned, but we just switched to a different water treatment (after he started getting sick because we ran out of the other and that brand doesn't seem to be sold here). It is called AmQuel+.

We also got test strips to test the water... the ph is excellent in the treated water, I don't know what the ph is just for plain tap water.. but we always treat the water. We tested the nitrites and they are about .75

We were doing weekly water changes, but since the transfer to the 2.5gal tank and all the problems we've had, we had to do several water changes

I asked how long the previous owners had him and they thought maybe 6 months but possibly less. We've had Ian for a bit over a year now.. so he is possibly 1 1/2 years.. but also we don't know how long the store had him before they purchased him...

He was doing fine before we purchased the heater and the new tank...

 

[Durbkat]

What is the ammonia reading? The nitrite reading might be a cause. Did you put him in a bag and accumlate him each time you moved him into a new tank? Do you ever put a mirror besides the tank so he can flare? How much of the amquel+ do you use when you treat the water in the bucket before you put the water into the tank? How long did you let the treated water sit before you put it in the tank?

 

[heabrook]

I don't know the ammonia reading, apparently the test kit I purchased doesn't check for ammonia..
I haven't put a mirror, should I?

We treated the water in a 1gal with about approximately 1/10th of a teaspoon. We let it sit for probably 20 minutes....


The first time I moved him to his new tank, with his new heater, I did not use a bag.. I could kick myself, I don't know why.. I was so worried that he might be too cold and I didn't think about doing that. But I quickly realized that I should have and each time I moved him thereafter I used the bag method. I wonder if I temperature shocked him in the first place... but it has been a few days with no improvement.

 

[Durbkat]

I know EXACTLY what's wrong with him you didn't let the water sit for long enough it is supposed to sit for 24 hours. Yes you should put a mirror besides the tank he could be depressed. Also another reason might be the constant moving around without you using a bag it might also be temp shock. Also you aren't using enough amquel+ you should use 1/4 teaspoon I use 1/2 teaspoon for my two gallon bucket before I put it into the tank and I let it set for 24 hours.

 

[heabrook]

We were using a different brand of water treatment but ran out and purchased Amquel+ because they did not have the other brand. This was after the transfer though.. after he wasn't doing good.

I will make up some amquel+ with a proper amount and let it sit for 24 hours and then change his water.
He seems to be more responsive now that we put him back into his smaller bowl. But very much not himself... just slightly more responsive to us.

I'll put a mirror beside his tank as well. Thanks for your suggestions. Do you have any opinion on stress coat? Should I try it?

Also...before we changed the water treatment to amquel, we never let it sit for 24 hours because it didn't say to do so [and we didn't know that we were supposed to]... so I'm not sure if that was the problem, unless amquel isn't as strong as the other brand that we used....

 

[Durbkat]

Well on the bottle of amquel it says to let it set for 24 hours. Don't see as use for stress coat its main use is just to replace slime coat say if it jumped out or something and dried up a little bit.

 

[heabrook]

...yes it does say that. I'm not the one who changes the water, and I assumed that he would read the bottle. The other brand we had didn't have to sit for 24 hours... Regardless, the problem started before we switched to amquel. BUT he was getting better until we ran out of the other treatment and switched to amquel so you could be right, we may be not treating the water long enough.. well we have already made up some fresh water and we will let it sit for 24 hours and change his water after that period.

 

[Durbkat]

How did he react to the mirror?

 

[SkiFletch]

First things first, how old is the Betta? I know you rescued him, but how long have you had him?

Secondly, are you changing out all of his water at once? Thats a big mistake and can really stress out your fish. Try and stick to 50-60% max water changes. Go ahead and treat with amquel, but you dont have to let the water sit for 24 hours when you treat it. I hate to give out conflicting information here, but my bottle of Amquel doesnt tell me to wait 24 hours before adding water...

what do you feed Ian? and how often?

 

[heabrook]

How did he react to the mirror?

He is flaring at it. Why exactly is the mirror such a good idea?
And should it always be sitting by him?

Also.. do you think it would be okay to give him a new plant? he doesn't have one now and he always loved to have plants in the tank with him.

 

[MAM]

I tried Amquel+ before myself, and I did not have a good experience with it. I lost vast numbers of fish in multiple tanks when I used it, and followed the bottle directions (I don't recall anything about leaving it sit 24 hours...........). Just my personal experience with that product. I know many use it and swear by it though, so please don't let my experience turn you off the product. Maybe its a matter of adjusting how much you use.

But I do use Stress Coat as my water conditioner and love it. I use a bit more than the bottle calls for myself. To clarify, it does help with the slime coat, but it also dechlorinates the water and is supposed to remove heavy metals.

 

[heabrook]

First things first, how old is the Betta? I know you rescued him, but how long have you had him?

Secondly, are you changing out all of his water at once? Thats a big mistake and can really stress out your fish. Try and stick to 50-60% max water changes. Go ahead and treat with amquel, but you dont have to let the water sit for 24 hours when you treat it. I hate to give out conflicting information here, but my bottle of Amquel doesnt tell me to wait 24 hours before adding water...

what do you feed Ian? and how often?

I have had him for about a year, he is potentially 1.5 years old possibly more.

I learned through my recent research that you aren't supposed to change all of his water... Well I just checked my bottle of amquel and it says "ALWAYS let sit for 24 hours..."

We feed Ian twice a day...
I've had bettas in the past and always fed them the pellets but when we first got him, he was malnourished and didn't take to the pellets so we gave up and let him eat what he was used to.. they were feeding him BettaMin so that is what we've been feeding him.

We found a store that carries the other water treatment that we were using. But I don't know if we should get it and use it today... we've already transferred him to his old bowl today and gave him a water change and we don't want to overstress him. Any thoughts?

and when I do, do I need to keep some of the water in the bowl (even though it was treated with amquel+) instead of doing a 100% change?

 

[Durbkat]

No don't set the mirror by him all the time the longest time you should do is 20 minutes once a day. I don't believe its true that you aren't supposed to do 100% water changes because I di 100% water changes weekly on my 1/2g.

 

[RandomWiktor]

Ok.
You will want to invest in Aquasafe. It is a much better dechlorinator than Amquel, and I've never had to let it sit before. I do 100% water changes weekly using it, and I've never had any issues. Amquel is meant more for neutralizing ammonia than dechlorinating, which is probably your problems. In my humble opinion, the stuff is useless, as it only temporarily locks ammonia, and is basically an excuse for poor husbandry made for people who don't like to clean thier tanks enough. I'm not saying that you are this person at all, I'm just saying its a shoddy product.

Stress Coat can be used as a dechlorinator. However, it sometimes has an antiseptic in it, and you don't want to chronically expose fish to this, as it can lead to antiseptic resistance and stronger bacteria strains.

For now, get your betta into a low stress environment. Forget live plants; unless you have proper filtration and lighting, they will die and mess up your water levels. I would reccomend silk plants, rounded gravel, and a soft-edged cave for decour. Mild filtration in a tank of 2.5 gallons or greater has always worked for mine, but the absolute minimum tank size is 1 gallon.

72 is a little cold. Bettas have a more ideal range of 76-80. Up to 84 is safe, but pushing it. If your house is warm, or if you have a tank with a hood and light, the temp will usually stay at a pretty good temp; I even need to take the hoods off of mine periodically because they trap so much heat being generated by the filter.

Your betta sounds like he is just suffering from stress right now. The mirror does NOT help stress; its like putting a fighting dog in view of another. It'll get them worked up and can offer good exersize, but it isn't the best thing to do in times of stress. I would suggest the opposite; get your betta into a warm, darkened environment away from loud noises, sudden movements, stressful stimuli. Keep the temp as close to 80 as possible. Put plenty of fake plants and hiding in his tank. And give him a good week in dechlorinated water with some added aquarium salt, and if you have it, blackwater extract. Once he has been stable for a while, you can worry about larger tanks, filters, heaters and the like.

Good luck with your boy, and I hope he does better.

 

[heabrook]

Ian is doing great now. He is back in his "goldfish" bowl. I purchased the water treatment that he is used to (splendid betta) and he reacted wonderfully to it. Thanks for all of your advice!