Beta died potential issue?

[Play99s]

So my heart was broken this afternoon as I came back from work I found my beta on the bottom of the tank and I am not sure what happens if anyone can give me a few pointers for the future or maybe a reason why it happened.
So it started like at least 3 weeks ago or so I decided to fully clean the tank I got a 5Gallon tank for him along with 5 other small tetras, so I took them all out and cleaned the holy thing it was really bad, I had so much dirt and gunk into the gravel bed that I had on the bottom I guess I did put to much gravel so decided to remove it. I cleaned it all nice. Then I decided to not put the substrate anymore as I thought it gonna be easier to clean. Then for the next 2 weeks, I cleaned it normally nothing happened. I went away for 5 days I told one of my friends to come to feed them once a day a tiny little bit of food and that was about it. When I came back the water was really green I guess from the algae and I found 3 of the tetras dead 2 of them were almost decomposed and 1 was still intact. I decided to clean the tank normally I've taken the dead fish out cleaned it and measure the water it was all normal or so I think. Then this weekend I put back some of the gravel not a lot like the first time and went and I got 4 more baby tetras to fill the void but.... then again 2nd day of them being there 2 of them died one was kinda decomposed and 1 got stuck behind my filter and not sure what happened there. Now it's Tuesday and my beta is gone. I noticed him yesterday that he kept still in one place and didn't really wanna eat the day before on Sunday he was alright or so I think since he ate and moved. I did measure the water again it was just perfect, to be honest, I got even a big kit to test for each and everything in the water. I'm really sad and not sure of what happened if anyone with experience can give me a hand in not this happening again I would appreciate it. One more thing the tank was set up in around March I did let it for 2 weeks to cycle a bit adding bacteria to help it cycle as I've been told and read about. Thank you once again

LE: what else I did when I got those 4 new baby tetras I used to have plastic plants and I did buy some plants and put them in as well, and another weird thing that I saw was when I changed the water on Saturday the top of the tank the water was much warmer than the rest of the tank but not sure why iv been checking since and it's ok now might have been one of the issues maybe? but from what I think and assume it was me cleaning and removing everything and then leaving on holiday for 5 days that did this I am not sure what else to think

 

[NannaLou]

I’m not an expert yet, and someone else will come along with further advice, but I suspect that the tank wasn’t fully cycled to start with. It takes much longer than 2 weeks to cycle a tank, running the filter and adding bottled bacteria isn’t cycling as I found out.

I would think that on top of the tank not being cycled, having dead fish in the tank would have caused ammonia spikes and not maintaining the cleanliness of the tank will all have added to the stress of the fish which in turn makes them vulnerable to health issues.

I think you’ve probably become victim to a series of smaller errors that have compounded.

I would rehome any surviving fish, clean the tank and its contents thoroughly and start the cycling process so that you know you have a fully cycled tank. Then you can start to add fish.

You need to keep on top of tank maintenance, regular water changes (I do about 40% weekly, but there are various amounts suggested, but this meets water maintenance levels for my one Betta), substrate cleaning etc.

 

[Guyb93]

As above I would also say not fully cycled and the clean probably made things a little worse I’d say , I’m a fan of the” instant cycle” I have only ever cycled using fish and or bottled bacteria and ready cycled filter media so if that is the only issue I think you have been unlucky

 

[NannaLou]

As above I would also say not fully cycled and the clean probably made things a little worse I’d say , I’m a fan of the” instant cycle” I have only ever cycled using fish and or bottled bacteria and ready cycled filter media so if that is the only issue I think you have been unlucky

The issue with the ‘fish in’ cycle is the fact that you need to be aware that that is what you are doing. You need to be testing the water and making numerous water changes until you know you’ve got a fully cycled tank.

New fish keepers (me being a perfect example) had no idea that cycling a tank was even a thing and just followed the advice from the lfs to ‘run the filter for 10 - 14 days.

 

[Guyb93]

The issue with the ‘fish in’ cycle is the fact that you need to be aware that that is what you are doing. You need to be testing the water and making numerous water changes until you know you’ve got a fully cycled tank.

New fish keepers (me being a perfect example) had no idea that cycling a tank was even a thing and just followed the advice from the lfs to ‘run the filter for 10 - 14 days.

I agree it’s not ideal and would be crazy to do it with expensive fish and a bit of knowledge is also handy before hand but I can’t cycle a tank “correct” as I’m a giant man child with the patience of a hungry dog lol I think that the OP has been unlucky if the only issue was uncycled

 

[Play99s]

Well, it's been a few months since March now I'm sure it has cycled by now has it not ? I did measure and everything was alright with the water but I guess the stress and that cleaning the job for my beta and other tetras that passed I will keep an update here and see what's going on, the remainder of my 4 tetras seem very happy and I feed them yesterday and today they were very receptive and they are happy to see me so I guess they should be fine for the time being I will see and keep you guys posted. Thank you so much for the replays <3

 

[Slaphppy7]

What kind of test kit are you using?

When you "clean" the tank, you aren't using chemicals or soaps, correct?....and you are not cleaning your filter media in tap water, I hope...

 

[Byron]

A 5 gallon tank is OK for the betta alone, but not with any other fish. Either have a betta, or we might be able to suggest some "nano" fish species suited to this small a tank. But not both. Something to keep in mind going forward.

What species were the "tetras?" These along with a betta might or might not have been/be affected by cycling by now.

Always give us the numbers for any tests you do, so we know exactly. Members can frequently asses issues if the numbers are given. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are worth knowing especially if cycling is part of the issue. The GH (general hardness) of your tap water is worth knowing, as is the pH of the tank water.

Can you post a photo of the tank with the plants so we can see them? Some plants will easily handle ammonia from a betta or small fish, but without knowing what they are and how many, difficult to say.

 

[Play99s]

What kind of test kit are you using?

When you "clean" the tank, you aren't using chemicals or soaps, correct?....and you are not cleaning your filter media in tap water, I hope...

1- API freshwater master test kit / and I got some strips for Ammonia and 6-1 strips as well just to be sure something is not wrong.
2- Absolutely not, only cleaning product I use is the water inside the tank that I use when I swap it out before I get rid of it, the sponge in the filter I only clean once 1-2 weeks in the tank water that I remove the same as for cleaning the walls of the tank with the water that I remove nothing ever anything else.

A 5 gallon tank is OK for the betta alone, but not with any other fish. Either have a betta, or we might be able to suggest some "nano" fish species suited to this small a tank. But not both. Something to keep in mind going forward.

What species were the "tetras?" These along with a betta might or might not have been/be affected by cycling by now.

Always give us the numbers for any tests you do, so we know exactly. Members can frequently asses issues if the numbers are given. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are worth knowing especially if cycling is part of the issue. The GH (general hardness) of your tap water is worth knowing, as is the pH of the tank water.

Can you post a photo of the tank with the plants so we can see them? Some plants will easily handle ammonia from a betta or small fish, but without knowing what they are and how many, difficult to say.

1- I see well when I went to the fish shop where I first got them they said its ok
2 - neon tetras
3 - I will post on the next time I measure this weekend and take a picture and put it here, as for GH of the water my supplier states its Hard and that's bout it that I can tell you about the hardness.
4 - I will post one later on I can give you the names if that helps too?

 

[Play99s]

Plants are
- echinodorus mixed
- hemiographis colorata
- hygrophila guanensis
No more room for more I guess maybe just something small for the bottom of the tank but I am not sure what I could get, these were recommended by the shop.

 

[Byron]

when I went to the fish shop where I first got them they said its ok

Now you've learned what all of us learned, you cannot trust advice from fish stores. A store owned independently and staffed by knowledgeable hobbyists is very rare. Always do your research before acquiring fish. We've all suffered from this, you're not alone.

Neon tetras need a much larger tank, I would not put them in anything under 15 or 20 gallon, assuming either of these is 24 inches/60 cm in length. On a totally different aspect, they should never be combined with a male betta; the betta may suddenly take a dislike to brightly colour fish like neons, or the neons can suddenly decide nipping the betta's fins is "fun." Whichever, consider a betta to be a solitary fish in an aquarium, he will be much happier and safer, and that means healthier.

As for the plants, you have some fast growing species so that is good. Once they are showing obvious signs of growth, they will be taking up ammonia/ammonium, and they do this big time, so "cycling" will no longer be an issue.

 

[Play99s]

@Byron
I see thank you for the info, should I just do this I was thinking, get a 20 Gallon, let it cycle for a month or two helping it ofc, then moving the tetras into it and then in the 5-gallon one just add a betta, later on, would that be a good idea/thing to do? As for the plants they are kinda big, they are potted plants that's how I got them.

 

[Slaphppy7]

We don't "let" a tank cycle, we actively cycle it ourselves: https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

 

[Play99s]

We don't "let" a tank cycle, we actively cycle it ourselves: https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

Yes sir that what I mean I didn't wanna mean just put water and let it sit there and do nothing ofc'd do the steps to help it thank you for the post I see it describes the process in detail.

 

[Slaphppy7]

Yes sir that what I mean I didn't wanna mean just put water and let it sit there and do nothing ofc'd do the steps to help it thank you for the post I see it describes the process in detail.

Good, and you're welcome.