Barry Bonds Break Record

[rdd1952]

The bad part about it is that otherplayers have seen how Bonds has used them to play past 40 years old and actually increase his production in the years when it should be declining. It will only result in more people using them. And some lab will probably come up with one that don't test positive making it easy for players to use it without getting caught. They definitely need mandatory random drug testing in all professional sports with a major fine and suspension or ban if caught.

 

[Flumpus]

They definitely need mandatory random drug testing in all professional sports with a major fine and suspension or ban if caught.

Uh... they have that.

And please, people, it's Mark McGuire, there is no Q in his name.

I still say if everyone is cheating (and it seems that at least most people are), then it pretty much levels the playing field. In addition, Bonds was a hall of famer before the home run explosion, so I'm sure he'll get in the hall of fame.

 

[backley420]

Yes, bonds has so many records- many of which steroids did not make a difference. here is a copy of them.
Holds record for most home runs in a career (757)
Holds record for most home runs in a season (73 in 2001)
Holds record for most walks in a career (2,541)
Holds record for most intentional walks in a career (679)
Holds record for most walks in a season (232 in 2004)
Holds record for most intentional walks in a season (120 in 2004)
Holds record for highest slugging percentage in a season (.863 in 2001)
Holds record for highest on base percentage in a season (.609 in 2004)
Holds record for most MVP awards (7) and consecutive MVP awards (4); (1990, 1992-93, 2001-04). Note: the current version of the MVP award has been given since 1931. Prior to that year, the League Awards were only given to a player once (from 1922-1929) and sometimes not at all (from 1915-1921).
Holds record for most pitchers homered off (446)
Holds record for most consecutive games with a walk (18)
Shares record for consecutive plate appearances with a walk (7)
Holds record for consecutive seasons with 30 or more home runs (13), 1992-2004
Only player in 400 home run and 400 stolen base club
Only player in 500 home run and 500 stolen base club
One of four players in 40-40 club (40 home runs and 40 stolen bases in a single season)
Holds record for most consecutive seasons with .600 slugging percentage or higher (8), 1998-2005
5-time SF Giants Player of the Year (1998, 2001-04)
14-Time All-Star (1990, 1992-98, 2000-04, 2007)
7-Time Baseball America NL All-Star OF (1993, 1998, 2000-04)
3-Time Major League Player of the Year (1990, 2001, 2004)
3-Time Baseball America MLB Player of the Year (2001, 2003-04)
8-Time Gold Glove winner for NL Outfielder (1990-94, 1996-98)
12-Time Silver Slugger winner for NL Outfielder (1990-94, 1996-97, 2000-04)
Led the Major Leagues in home runs (1993, 2001)
Led the NL in batting average (2002, 2004)
Led the NL in on base percentage (1991-93, 1995, 2001-04, 2006)
Led the Major Leagues in slugging percentage (1990, 1992-93, 2001-04)
Led the Major Leagues in extra base hits (1992-93, 2001)
Led the Major Leagues in on base percentage (1992, 2001-04)
Led the NL in runs (1992)
Led the NL in RBIs (1993)
Led the NL in walks (1992, 1994-97, 2000-04, 2006)
Led the NL in intentional walks (1992-98, 2002-04, 2006)
Led the NL in runs created (1992-93, 2001-02, 2004)
Led the Major Leagues in total bases (1993, with 365)
Led the Major Leagues in runs created (1993, 2001-02, 2004)
Led the NL in games (1995)
Led the NL in extra base hits (1992-93, 2001)
Led the NL in at bats per home run (1992-93, 1996, 2000-04)
3-Time NL Hank Aaron Award winner (2001-02, 2004)
Led the Major Leagues in batting average (2002, with .370)
Listed at # 6 on The Sporting News' list of the 100 Greatest Baseball Players, the highest-ranked active player, in 2005.
Named a finalist to the Major League Baseball All-Century Team in 1999, but not elected to the team in the fan balloting.
Rating of 352 on Baseball-Reference.com's Hall of Fame monitor (100 is a good HOF candidate); 9th among all hitters, highest among hitters not in HOF yet.
With his father Bobby, leads all father-son combinations in combined home runs (1,089) and stolen bases (975) through August 8, 2007.

 

[rdd1952]

Almost every record there can be attributed to the steroids. Obviously, the home run records can be with the possible exception of the consecutive seasons record but een that included 4 seasons after his association with BALCO started and after his 36th birthday. Could he have gotten 30 in those 4 years without the steroids.

The walk records are definitely a result of the steroids and the fact that so many tems pitched around him. There were even instances in the last 4 or 5 years where he was walked with no one on in a 1 run game just to keep him from hitting a tying home run. I definitely say that is related to steroids. Also, of all the times he led the majors, look at how mny of them were from 2001 or later.

As for his ranking for the HOF, I seriously doubt he will ever get there unless his name is somehow cleared completely. A large number of the people that would have to vote for him have the same opinion as I do. Mark McQuire has already been denied on his first attempt and I'm sure that is for the same reason. I understand if you think he is clean or that the steroids don't matter but to me he has gotten there by cheating. He wasn't happey with a great career prior to 2000. He was a shoo-in for the HOF at that time but I don't think so any more. He had to try to get little more.

 

[Flumpus]

I can't take you seriously until you quit using a Q in Mark McGuire's name.

Aside from that, he is a hall of famer. He was a hall of famer before the alleged steroids, and he is a hall of famer now. The baseball writers have a right to keep him out, but they shouldn't. Other people in the hall of fame cheated, and admitted to it, and talk freely about it, and no one seems to care! I really don't like Bonds, but he should be in the hall of fame, and because of baseball's rules, he shouldn't have any records stripped. If he ever fails a drug test, then fine, but right now it seems like he (and countless other players) beat the system, and there's not much anyone can do about it.

 

[nukeonekitty]

I can't take you seriously until you quit using a Q in Mark McGuire's name.

Oh brother...

 

[backley420]

I guess you could say all those records can be linked to steroids. But still, lets go back to the 40's where sterioids were not around but people still found ways to cheat (ex. boxers had rolls of quarters in there palms while they fought) so even though bonds probbly did cheat he still had to of had enough skill to make and break all those records.

 

[rdd1952]

I can't take you seriously until you quit using a Q in Mark McGuire's name.

Well, if you're going to get technical and use proper spelling of player's names as a basis for knowledge on baseball, the proper spelling isn't McQuire or McGuire. It's McGwire.

I guess you could say all those records can be linked to steroids. But still, lets go back to the 40's where sterioids were not around but people still found ways to cheat (ex. boxers had rolls of quarters in there palms while they fought) so even though bonds probbly did cheat he still had to of had enough skill to make and break all those records.

The fact that Bonds had the skill isn't the thing. Obviously he did based on his career before 2001. And to me there is a difference in cheating once or twice as every player probably does from time to time (a pitcher adds a little Vaseline to a ball) versus doing something that gives you an unfair advantage for a very extended period as Bonds did. Most are never caught and Bonds may get off without ever having it proved that he used steroids although everyone knows he did. Knowing and proving are 2 different things. After Sammy Sosa's bat broke the other year and it was found to be corked, it kind of made you wonder if his bat was corked when he was chasing history with Mark McGwire in 1998.

Whether he deserves the records can be debated on and on. I tend to agree with what Curt Shilling when he said that he believed that Bonds' and McGwire's refusal to address the issue was the same as admitting guilt. If people are writing those things and you are totally innocent, why would you not sue for slander and liable. But as also noted by Shilling, the known/admitted cheaters and steroid users (Canseco and Palmeiro) haven't had their records and accomplishments stricken so most likely Bonds' records won't be either even if it is ever proven.

 

[backley420]

Very nice response rdd.

The only thing I'm goin to say is that- even though babe ruth is well below the homerun record he will always be rembered for being the greatest. Hank Aaron has his own award- Hank Aaron award"

but i doubt once Bond's record is beaten by -- lets say A-rod, he will slowly fade away since, as my poll reveals, more people booed then cheered And he isnt even world famous(even though baseball is not a world sport.)

 

[rdd1952]

The only thing I'm goin to say is that- even though babe ruth is well below the homerun record he will always be rembered for being the greatest. Hank Aaron has his own award- Hank Aaron award"
but i doubt once Bond's record is beaten by -- lets say A-rod, he will slowly fade away since, as my poll reveals, more people booed then cheered And he isnt even world famous(even though baseball is not a world sport.)

I think it's quite ironic that Bonds has won the Hank Aaron award 3 times. I'm sure people will still remember Bonds but probably not for the right reasons. He's career will forever be tainted.

 

[rdd1952]

I just got through reading another article on Bonds and the HOF. The writer said he would probably vote for Bonds but not happily. The article also went on to say that because there were so many voters for the Baseball HOF (545 last year as opposed to 39 for the NFL) that the vote was more likely to represent the will of the average fan, lowering Bonds' probability of getting in considering a April poll of fans aged 12 to 64 that ranked Bonds as the 3rd least liked athlete behind only Ron Artest and Terrell Owens. He seems to be loved (or tolerated maybe) only in San Francisco.

Another article states that he will play one more year and that since this is the last year of his contact with the Giants that he would probably try to sign with an AL team so he could DH and play almost every day. That would almost assure him of 800 HRs with close to half of them coming after his 35th birthday, a rather strange stat indeed. I just pray it isn't my Yankees. I have been a Yankees fan since 1960 but if Steinbrenner signs Bonds, I think I would become a Red Sox fan.

 

[nukeonekitty]

Yeah, I wouldn't be too happy if my Tig's picked him up either. It would be a pretty Yankee move to do though!

 

[rdd1952]

It would be a pretty Yankee move to do though!

That's what scares me. I can see Steinbrenner buying him, being a left handed power hitter, for that short porch in right field. Playing every day as a DH, that would be at least another 40 HRs to try to win another pennant. He needs to spend some money on some pitching though.

 

[vancouver]

Not anyone can just take steroids and hit X amount of home runs..

There is a lot of talent involved.. steroids probably did help power-wise, but you cant say he couldn't have done it without steroids.

 

[nukeonekitty]

How do you figure? A skinny guy simply is not going to set home run records. I agree he would be a terrific all around base ball player with out steroids, but he wouldn't be setting any home run records, it's simply not physically possible for a skinny man to go out and get home runs day in and day out.