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Bad advice in the "Betta Care" thread...

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Also, since we all love uncle google….

that is not a reliable source. You, like they, are repeating a dangerous lie to make yourselves feel good.

The university of Maryland isn’t reputable?

The University of Maryland quoted Pitbulls.org, saying they claim it's a nanny dog. Biased source, don't you think? This excerpt could be very misleading - got a link to the full study?
I live in maui, I see bully dogs on a daily basis. From staffy’s to blue and red nose, to frenchies. I’ll say the only dogs that have ever bit at me are chihuahua’s and a chow mix. The only dog that has ever bit my dog was an Akita/husky mix.

Again, as unfortunate as your situation was, you are treating your judgement of multiple breeds of dogs (albeit you’re lumping them into one ‘pit bull’ name) on one horrible encounter

I'm happy for you that you've never seen a pet or person you love mauled by a bully breed that is trying to kill them. It's an experience so horrifying, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I cannot even imagine how it feels when the victim is a child.


I honestly don't want to get into the pitbull debate, I really don't! Not today anyway. :)

They get way too heated, no one will budge, and it doesn't resolve anything. I'm not anti-pit in terms of BSL etc, or one of those people who hates them and all pit owners. But I do give bully types a wide berth when I'm out with my own dogs, because owners refuse to admit to their ingrained dog aggression and handle their dogs accordingly. You have a right to own them, I have the right to avoid them.

We both have different experiences of bully breeds, but it's anecdotal on both sides. Not evidence. Statistics show that there's a real problem, and I believe that since they were created as baiting dogs, bred to fight and hold bulls for heck's sake! Then since for fighting, hunting, and as a status symbol by backyard breeders, many of whom encourage people to make them aggressive as protection and guard dogs. With that history, it's no surprise that that they have certain traits which make them a serious dog, which should only be owned by people who are aware of the risks, and do whatever is needed to mitigate them.

But claiming that it's all in how you raise them, that they have no aggressive traits, that they were not bred to bite and hold on no matter what - something they still do - is just ridiculous. We bred dogs to do certain jobs, and we can still see the effects of that in different breeds. There are a billion pages that list breed tendencies and general character traits for every breed for a reason! But for some reason, pitbulls are exempt?

Look at working line Border Collies. We warn prospective owners that not only are they incredibly high energy, with incredible stamina, but that they're also highly intelligent, so need an active, involved home prepared to give them the stimulation they need, or there will likely be problems. To watch them around small children especially, since they often have the inbuild instinct to herd, and can be nippy in their attempt to herd their humans, the same way they were bred to nip the heel of a sheep that wasn't moving the way they wanted them to.
That it's not a couch potato breed, although there are of course individual variations, including the odd lazy, low energy collie!

You won't train a goldie into a guard dog.
You won't train a kangal into an obedience champion.
You won't train a greyhound into a water retriever.

No one claims that it's solely in how you raise them with other breeds, and that they're a blank slate with no genetic traits and breed tendencies. Every breed has lists of their traits, as a result of hundreds of years of selective breeding for those traits! We know how genetics and heredity works. But when the topic of pitbulls comes up, all logic and reason goes flying out the window. People describing them all as demons or angels, and no one meeting in the middle, in reality.
 
To say no Goldie can be trained to be a guard dog is ridiculous. And shows how much you want to believe in the stereotypes these dogs have.

Pick a random example to mock, without answering the real points. Not a great debate tactic. I wonder why we wo't typically see goldies guarding junk yards, and greyhounds as Crufts winners in obedience.

So is your claim that no breeds have any genetic influence on their behaviours? That those hundreds of years where we bred dogs for specific tasks has had zero impact on their behaviours, temperament etc, and none of it is genetic? They're all blank slates when born, shaped entirely by how they are raised?

That you could train any breed of dog, to do any type of job, no problem? Because picking on that one example while ignoring every other point makes it sound as though you are.
 
The thing you seem to be forgetting, is all dogs are pack animals. They are all breed from wolves. They all have that instinct somewhere deep down inside them. That means picking on the weak, asserting (or submitting to) dominance, etc., so no matter the breed, or how stuffed down the line it is, the ability to attack provoked or unprovoked is in there.
 
I went to bed, woke up this morning to guess what. We now have a dog breed expert on the forum site, screaming and yelling.
Everyone here seems to only talk about the points they want to. Just walk away, and let her win the argument.
 
how did we get to a discussion of dogs on the Betta Care thread?
 
Pick a random example to mock, without answering the real points. Not a great debate tactic. I wonder why we wo't typically see goldies guarding junk yards, and greyhounds as Crufts winners in obedience.

So is your claim that no breeds have any genetic influence on their behaviours? That those hundreds of years where we bred dogs for specific tasks has had zero impact on their behaviours, temperament etc, and none of it is genetic? They're all blank slates when born, shaped entirely by how they are raised?

That you could train any breed of dog, to do any type of job, no problem? Because picking on that one example while ignoring every other point makes it sound as though you are.
I believe you can train any dog to do many tasks... A pit for example turned out to be a great police dog in some state (I forget which)... Hounds are good for hunting due to their ability to smell things out better. It all depends on how the dog is raised. If it is abused and hasnt had puppy or human interaction it may respond aggressively
 
I went to bed, woke up this morning to guess what. We now have a dog breed expert on the forum site, screaming and yelling.
Everyone here seems to only talk about the points they want to. Just walk away, and let her win the argument.
So you attack one day, apologise that night, then snarking and insulting again the next day?

Classy. How very two-faced.
 
The thing you seem to be forgetting, is all dogs are pack animals. They are all breed from wolves. They all have that instinct somewhere deep down inside them. That means picking on the weak, asserting (or submitting to) dominance, etc., so no matter the breed, or how stuffed down the line it is, the ability to attack provoked or unprovoked is in there.
I never claimed otherwise! Where did I say that no other dogs ever bite or maul?

We were talking about genetics affecting behaviour, that some animals (including our selectively bred dogs) have traits that have been passed on in their genes, leading to things like breed traits in dogs.

You're claiming that selective breeding and an animals genetics has no impact on their temperament or general breed characteristics. At least, for pitbulls. And apparently all dogs. They're all blank slates, acting only based on how they're raised, so any dog is exactly the same as any other if raised the same way. No genetic influence at all.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree there, since this is clearly going nowhere either.
 
I went to bed, woke up this morning to guess what. We now have a dog breed expert on the forum site, screaming and yelling.
Everyone here seems to only talk about the points they want to. Just walk away, and let her win the argument.
The screaming and yelling must be the voices in your head, Bernard.
Typing words and debating points is not yelling.
 
Ok ranting and raving then, and not letting anyone else talk.
Anyone can type whatever they want. How am I stopping them, exactly?
Oh look. Yet another debate that doesn't involve you that you have to butt in on, always at your favourite targets.

You and that Bruce guy have already driven some excellent, super knowledgeable, friendly and helpful posters from this forum. One of the reasons I stopped bothering to log in was because they've gone, and you and Bruce tried to take over the whole place. Demanding that your ways were the only ways and targeting people that you loved to provoke to argue with you.


It ain't going to work on me.
 
I'm happy for you that you've never seen a pet or person you love mauled by a bully breed that is trying to kill them. It's an experience so horrifying, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I cannot even imagine how it feels when the victim is a child.
I'm so sorry if that has happened to you... But you also need to understand, blaming the dog isnt right. Its past life or how the current owner goes about caring for the dog can cause a reaction... To blame a whole breed and hold that resentment against them is cruel to that whole species. This is in a more serious manner but hopefully it gets the point across... Imagine someone of a diffferent ethnicity watched a white person kill a close friend, would it be right for the person to assume that all white people a monsters?
 
I'm so sorry if that has happened to you... But you also need to understand, blaming the dog isnt right. Its past life or how the current owner goes about caring for the dog can cause a reaction... To blame a whole breed and hold that resentment against them is cruel to that whole species. This is in a more serious manner but hopefully it gets the point across... Imagine someone of a diffferent ethnicity watched a white person kill a close friend, would it be right for the person to assume that all white people a monsters?
Don't DARE compare me to a racist. Do you understand, child?
 
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