At my wits end - both Bettas are sick, I don't know what, and nothing seems to be treating them

[Emilue]

Hi everyone,

I've been having trouble with my Bettas ever since I received them by mail in August. My light blue guy shipped to me with tattered fins and I have been desperately trying to cure them with no avail. Now he's had these white spots pop up on him, with the biggest one having red dots, so maybe inflamed. Behaviour wise he's eating, making bubble nests, and is generally energetic.

My other Betta is a different story, he was fine for months but in November he started becoming very lethargic and losing his colour. He continuously rests on the substrate of the aquarium on his side, unmoving except to dart up and gulp the top of the water. Sometimes it looks like he's breathing heavy but I'm not sure, he also may be old as he has vision problems and does not make bubble nests. At first I thought there wasn't enough oxygen in the water, as it is very hot where I live, so I added a bubbler to the sponge filter, still nothing. I'm starting to think he is depressed, and I have been moving items around the tank, adding new items, adding plants and a snail, but he still hasn't improved. He's started to lose interest in food.

Here's an album with photos/videos of both of them:

https://imgur.com/a/sl2lyhq

I've been treating both Bettas for a month with aquarium salt, Indian almond leaves, Blue Planet Multicure, Blue Planet Tri Sulfa, and nothing is working. I also perform 50% water changes and administer this medication every 3-4 days. Food includes betta pellets (10 a day) or bloodworms, as well as fasting one day a week.

Water parameters:
0 ppm ammonia
0 ppm nitrate
3 ppm nitrate
7.8 pH
30 degrees Celsius water temp
Tank sizes: 5 gallons

I've posted to other forums many times to no avail for these problems, and it's been so frustrating as I just have no idea what to do for these guys anymore and I feel so awful because I just have been trying my best to treat them and they have been getting worser every day.

Thank you.

 

[GaryE]

There's nothing wrong with Betta one's fins - they aren't diseased. There is no visible fin rot - that just how some fins are. But the lesion on the side would make me very nervous - that looks like a Mycobacteriosis, or fish TB lesion. If so, there is no treatment. Do not put your hands in the water if you have open cuts.

Betta number two sounds ill, but with what? These are very inbred fish, and are not the hardiest.

I know, no help offered. But I can't see what you can do. One shows probable (to me) signs of an incurable infection (it survives bleach). The other has been bred for a deformed caudal peduncle, and that has to affect mobility.

 

[kiko]

well if it hasnt worked for months I would just stop those...
let them be for a couple weeks just water changes so they can get back to normal unstressed from stuff you're putting in there
and try 2 simple things after....salt with your water changes and garlic mixed with their food...
garlic is a natural antibiotic that also boosts the immune system which in turn makes the fish heal itself

 

[Emilue]

Okay, Iwill try giving that a go as well as putting the plants back in there to see if that reduces the stress. Thank you!

 

[GaryE]

I'll respectfully disagree with @kiko. Garlic has been used for ages, and there is anecdotal evidence both for and against. I wouldn't expect either salt or garlic to do anything for what I see in the photos. They might make you feel like you are doing something, but.

I would look up Mycobacter marinum in fish, to see if what you see corresponds to the gruesome pictures, as an early stage. I would be very happy to be wrong.

 

[TNG]

This may not be the cause of the problem, but is your temp is always that high, 30c?
That seems very high to me.

 

[Emilue]

It is high, as it is very hot and humid where I live this time of year, but I've successfully gotten both down to 28 degrees by turning lights down. Before summer hit, the tank temperatures were at around 26-28 degrees C, unfortunately they still were facing these same illnesses back then too

 

[kiko]

I'll respectfully disagree with @kiko. Garlic has been used for ages, and there is anecdotal evidence both for and against. I wouldn't expect either salt or garlic to do anything for what I see in the photos. They might make you feel like you are doing something, but.

I would look up Mycobacter marinum in fish, to see if what you see corresponds to the gruesome pictures, as an early stage. I would be very happy to be wrong.

you actually have multiple studies done on garlic and it's properties (allicin specially) from different entities...
an allicin study can be found here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1286457999800033
and garlic and its properties as an antibiotic on https/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8362743/#:~:text=The organosulfur compounds of garlic,drug resistant (MDR) strains.
and the greatest thing about garlic is that there's no known resistance to it unlike drugs like azithromycin or amoxicillin
which are commonly prescribed and limited to 5-7days runs because of resistance/addiction
also...nothing like a shot of whiskey to numb tooth pain and shoving garlic in your gums for abscesses xD

 

[GaryE]

Your temps are high, but Bettas can take 30 in nature. They are air breathers to adapt.

Unfortunately, if they are sick their common pathogens like high temps too.

 

[Emilue]

I'll respectfully disagree with @kiko. Garlic has been used for ages, and there is anecdotal evidence both for and against. I wouldn't expect either salt or garlic to do anything for what I see in the photos. They might make you feel like you are doing something, but.

I would look up Mycobacter marinum in fish, to see if what you see corresponds to the gruesome pictures, as an early stage. I would be very happy to be wrong.

That worries me as there is a red/grey patch forming on my light blue Betta, clamped fins, and there is a small white lump abscess-looking on him that I couldn't get in the photo. Will definitely investigate as tuberculosis could be a problem.

 

[kiko]

well...I haven't heard of a case of it in many years..but if suspected...most important...
KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF THE TANK
go on google and search "fish handler's disease" and click on pictures and you'll find out why

 

[GaryE]

I contracted it 15 years ago, which is why I suggest caution. I was exhausted and ill at the time, so I was open to it. Six months of an antibiotic cocktail - not fun.

Myco is one of the most common diseases in fish coming form crowded commercial farms. It works slowly and has many symptoms, so we overlook it. It usually just shortens fish lives. But the sores are one symptom.

 

[kiko]

I contracted it 15 years ago, which is why I suggest caution. I was exhausted and ill at the time, so I was open to it. Six months of an antibiotic cocktail - not fun.

Myco is one of the most common diseases in fish coming form crowded commercial farms. It works slowly and has many symptoms, so we overlook it. It usually just shortens fish lives. But the sores are one symptom.

next time...garlic and honey...
garlic for tb..honey for cuts ...both have medicinal properties
and unlike the ones I mentioned before..which they probably made you alternate like 6 different antibiotics because of resistance...
as a study which was already done to be used as alternate medicine in thirld world countries which can be cheap to get by locals specially in African countries
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC180079/?page=1
and if you read page 2 --> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC180079/?page=2
all 30 strains of mycobacter were inhibited by garlic requiring higher concentrations for different strains
which ends up being cheaper and not a cocktail of drugs just bad breath ^^

 

[Emilue]

It's difficult because TB could be so many symptoms, and I'm not even really sure how to diagnose it. All I know is that my fish are ill and nothing is really helping. I haven't noticed any problems with lesions on my hands or anything while cleaning the tank. I'm not too sure what to do

 

[kiko]

It's difficult because TB could be so many symptoms, and I'm not even really sure how to diagnose it. All I know is that my fish are ill and nothing is really helping. I haven't noticed any problems with lesions on my hands or anything while cleaning the tank. I'm not too sure what to do

Study: Garlic Fights Fish Flukes (With DIY Garlic Extract Guide)

This study adds another parasite to the list of those vulnerable to the effects of garlic, skin flukes. Includes garlic extract recipe.

allnaturalpetcare.com

in here it explains how to make it...how much to use etc...
there are many other natural foods such as green beans/peas, seaweed but I haven't kept bettas for many years and I wouldn't advise on using such foods with them
I know they're quite ok for plecos, cories, otos even hillstream loaches will do fine with them..heck you can feed green beans every day and plecos will do fine ^^
I'd stay on the safe side of things...squish some garlic...wet some pellets with garlic extract and just feed it to them