What are the pros and cons of using aquarium salt in a 10 gallon tank with celestial pearl danios and white cloud minnows or a 5 gallon tank with a betta? Is salt necessary? Thanks.
Aquarium salts
- Thread starter gwand
- Start date
Salt is not necessary, or even desirable, in fresh water tanks. Their native waters don't contain any salt and they have not evolved to cope with it.
Salt can be used on a temporary basis - up to 4 weeks max - to treat certain conditions and to help combat nitrite poisoning during fish-in cycling but otherwise leave the salt in the cupboard.
Salt can be used on a temporary basis - up to 4 weeks max - to treat certain conditions and to help combat nitrite poisoning during fish-in cycling but otherwise leave the salt in the cupboard.
OP
OP
Hot topic?
OP
OP
Thanks.
@Back in the fold ... you salt adder. He and I have gone back and forth on this topic a few times. It isn't a hot topic and we have never gotten salty about it.
In the past, before the water change era, salt was seen as a total necessity. There are people who swear by it, and have success using it.
I consider salt to be a harsh medication only to be added if there is a disease issue. So you will hear different opinions here. The main con for your set up would the fact your fish come from straight up freshwater, and salt would be a completely alien chemical to them. If they had problems with Oodinium spp (velvet) parasites and you have super soft water, then maybe. But that is uncommon, and very uncommon if you do the weekly 25-30% water changes as you should.
I keep mainly killies, and I find salt in the water really messes up their eggs. For the day to day with adult fish, it's an irritant, and the fish produce a thicker slime coat in response.That's how it works as a med, but I can't see it being pleasant for the fish.
In the past, before the water change era, salt was seen as a total necessity. There are people who swear by it, and have success using it.
I consider salt to be a harsh medication only to be added if there is a disease issue. So you will hear different opinions here. The main con for your set up would the fact your fish come from straight up freshwater, and salt would be a completely alien chemical to them. If they had problems with Oodinium spp (velvet) parasites and you have super soft water, then maybe. But that is uncommon, and very uncommon if you do the weekly 25-30% water changes as you should.
I keep mainly killies, and I find salt in the water really messes up their eggs. For the day to day with adult fish, it's an irritant, and the fish produce a thicker slime coat in response.That's how it works as a med, but I can't see it being pleasant for the fish.
OP
OP
Thanks. Very helpful.
@gwand There are two opposing camps on the salt issue here on the great democratic TFF Forums. I promote its use. Salt , in small amounts , is useful. It is beneficial as a general tonic. Some fish come from areas that are salt depleted by heavy seasonal rains. These fish have not “evolved “ to not needing salt. It’s just the way it is in rainforests. Certain of our egg head academics here have a vehement hatred of salt and do not tolerate dissenting opinions. So much for democratic open mindedness. But don’t take my word for it , I’m a salt adder.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
you know me and science, so
Tavares‐Dias, M., 2022. Toxicity, physiological, histopathological, handling, growth and antiparasitic effects of the sodium chloride (salt) in the freshwater fish aquaculture. Aquaculture Research, 53(3), pp.715-734.
This paper provides the currently available knowledge in the literature regarding the use of sodium chloride (NaCl) in freshwater fish aquaculture and aquaria as related to toxicity, growth performance, transportation, physiology, immunity, histomorphology and antiparasitic treatment. This review assessed and discussed all of these factors, as well as the potential strategies available to be used in fish farming. Acute toxicity to NaCl varies widely among fish species (3.5–150.0 g L−1) depending on some environment factors, and many fish species are sensitive to concentrations near those required for their development, growth or for controlling and treating parasites. Acute exposure to NaCl may lead to mortality in different fish species, cause changes in feeding and swimming behaviour, as well as in growth performance and histomorphology of gills, while sublethal concentrations are less harmful. To reduce stress during transport of freshwater fish, concentrations of 1.0–10.0 g L−1 of NaCl in water have been tested for some fish species. Data have shown that survival, body growth of fish, food intake and stimulation of food conversion are affected by the NaCl concentration. Moreover, the effects of NaCl on the immune system, physiology and behaviour must also be considered. Sodium chloride may be a chemotherapeutic for controlling and treating ectoparasite diseases in farmed freshwater fish because of its effectiveness and low cost, but this compound may not be used in high or extreme toxic concentrations, since the maximum tolerance may be near the therapeutic doses. Therefore, this chemical product should be used with parsimony in fish farming.
you must payto read the full paper or belong to an institution that gets you authorization.
Tavares‐Dias, M., 2022. Toxicity, physiological, histopathological, handling, growth and antiparasitic effects of the sodium chloride (salt) in the freshwater fish aquaculture. Aquaculture Research, 53(3), pp.715-734.
Abstract
This paper provides the currently available knowledge in the literature regarding the use of sodium chloride (NaCl) in freshwater fish aquaculture and aquaria as related to toxicity, growth performance, transportation, physiology, immunity, histomorphology and antiparasitic treatment. This review assessed and discussed all of these factors, as well as the potential strategies available to be used in fish farming. Acute toxicity to NaCl varies widely among fish species (3.5–150.0 g L−1) depending on some environment factors, and many fish species are sensitive to concentrations near those required for their development, growth or for controlling and treating parasites. Acute exposure to NaCl may lead to mortality in different fish species, cause changes in feeding and swimming behaviour, as well as in growth performance and histomorphology of gills, while sublethal concentrations are less harmful. To reduce stress during transport of freshwater fish, concentrations of 1.0–10.0 g L−1 of NaCl in water have been tested for some fish species. Data have shown that survival, body growth of fish, food intake and stimulation of food conversion are affected by the NaCl concentration. Moreover, the effects of NaCl on the immune system, physiology and behaviour must also be considered. Sodium chloride may be a chemotherapeutic for controlling and treating ectoparasite diseases in farmed freshwater fish because of its effectiveness and low cost, but this compound may not be used in high or extreme toxic concentrations, since the maximum tolerance may be near the therapeutic doses. Therefore, this chemical product should be used with parsimony in fish farming.
you must payto read the full paper or belong to an institution that gets you authorization.
I rest my case. When all other arguments fail then trot out the gobbledygook.you know me and science, so
Tavares‐Dias, M., 2022. Toxicity, physiological, histopathological, handling, growth and antiparasitic effects of the sodium chloride (salt) in the freshwater fish aquaculture. Aquaculture Research, 53(3), pp.715-734.
Abstract
This paper provides the currently available knowledge in the literature regarding the use of sodium chloride (NaCl) in freshwater fish aquaculture and aquaria as related to toxicity, growth performance, transportation, physiology, immunity, histomorphology and antiparasitic treatment. This review assessed and discussed all of these factors, as well as the potential strategies available to be used in fish farming. Acute toxicity to NaCl varies widely among fish species (3.5–150.0 g L−1) depending on some environment factors, and many fish species are sensitive to concentrations near those required for their development, growth or for controlling and treating parasites. Acute exposure to NaCl may lead to mortality in different fish species, cause changes in feeding and swimming behaviour, as well as in growth performance and histomorphology of gills, while sublethal concentrations are less harmful. To reduce stress during transport of freshwater fish, concentrations of 1.0–10.0 g L−1 of NaCl in water have been tested for some fish species. Data have shown that survival, body growth of fish, food intake and stimulation of food conversion are affected by the NaCl concentration. Moreover, the effects of NaCl on the immune system, physiology and behaviour must also be considered. Sodium chloride may be a chemotherapeutic for controlling and treating ectoparasite diseases in farmed freshwater fish because of its effectiveness and low cost, but this compound may not be used in high or extreme toxic concentrations, since the maximum tolerance may be near the therapeutic doses. Therefore, this chemical product should be used with parsimony in fish farming.
you must payto read the full paper or belong to an institution that gets you authorization.
I'm a fan of the old Blackadder TV series , so Saltadder is a compliment. And I see the dangling hook, my friend. Here goes. Chomp.
It isn't depletion of salts from seasonal rains, it's tens of millions of years of low minerals, including salt, in the habitats the fish evolved in. It's a consistent feature in old rainforests, even ones close to coasts. Fish have evolved complex systems to regulate the water in and out of their bodies, and how those systems are evolved affects how they handle salt.
If we look at that abstract - some fish are severely harmed by salt, some aren't. Salt can be used for external parasites, and even then, you have to be cautious.
You should have a look at discussions of water softeners that use salt exchange systems. That's an issue for a lot of people.
I have actually smoked a cigarette while sitting on rocks at a working asbestos mine. Not everyone can say that, but everyone in my ex's hometown thought they lived and worked in a great place. Later, I ended up providing a safe house to the Union guy who raised a stink about why everyone there was dying from asbestos. Look at how we treat the stuff now. Salt isn't that kind of poison, but it can be for fish. Back when I was picking fibres out of pebbles and throwing them into the ditch, we didn't have that research... and I'm really glad I didn't use the gravel there to aquascape. I didn't like the colour of it.
It isn't depletion of salts from seasonal rains, it's tens of millions of years of low minerals, including salt, in the habitats the fish evolved in. It's a consistent feature in old rainforests, even ones close to coasts. Fish have evolved complex systems to regulate the water in and out of their bodies, and how those systems are evolved affects how they handle salt.
If we look at that abstract - some fish are severely harmed by salt, some aren't. Salt can be used for external parasites, and even then, you have to be cautious.
You should have a look at discussions of water softeners that use salt exchange systems. That's an issue for a lot of people.
I have actually smoked a cigarette while sitting on rocks at a working asbestos mine. Not everyone can say that, but everyone in my ex's hometown thought they lived and worked in a great place. Later, I ended up providing a safe house to the Union guy who raised a stink about why everyone there was dying from asbestos. Look at how we treat the stuff now. Salt isn't that kind of poison, but it can be for fish. Back when I was picking fibres out of pebbles and throwing them into the ditch, we didn't have that research... and I'm really glad I didn't use the gravel there to aquascape. I didn't like the colour of it.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Would it be helpful if I stated the above science in simpler terms even though Gary did so? It is basically this- some fresh water fish can tolerate salt and some can do so even at higher levels than we might suspect while other fish can barely tolerate any salt at all. Moreover, specific species can tolerate different levels at different life stages. Only experimentation can determine the exact tolerances of any species. And it is actually a bit more complicated than this from a scientific point of view.
What this means is that one should be aware of the salt tolerances of their fish before they add salt or decide not to add it since there is no universal rule one can follow.
Now the above should surprise few folks since we know that different fish can handle different levels of hardness or TDS. We also know that, in most cases putting salt water fish into fresh water or fresh water fish into salt water will kill many of them. We also know some fish have the ability to transition between the two. But this is the exception, not the rule. So there would be two levels to understanding how some fish can make such a transition. One, the anecdotal answer, is to watch salmon go from the sea to fresh water to spawn. The science would explain how this is possible using technical terminology aka what B i t F call gobbledygook.
One of the more interesting parts of using science to understand things in the hobby has been the fact that most of the studies do not deal with all fish, most fish, or even many fish, instead they deal with specific species. I can find a lot of science on those species and salt, what I cannot find is any science that draws the line for salt tolerance for FW fish in general.
I prefer to say this, when one has no science to backup what they claim, what they say is very likely gobbledygook.
I can also report that entering "tolerance of freshwater fish species to salinity" into Google Scholar produced "About 162,000 results." So this should make it clear that there is a lot of variance and it is the "gobbledygook" that educates many of us.
Take ammonia levels as a perfect example. The non-scientific position is that any ammonia in any tank means you must change massive amount s of water. If you read on just about any fish forum or social media site and you will see the exact same thing. However, read the science and that gobbledygook teaches us this is not the case. It is the level of HN3 in the water than matters, not the total ammonia which includes the NH4. How do we know these two measure in any given tank? Science. Moreover, different species have different tolerance levels for ammonia. How do we know this? Oops more gobbledygook.
So I have my altum angels in pH 6 water with 1 ppm of total ammonia and you have your African cichlids in 8.5 ppm of water with .5 ppm of total ammonia. We have them both at 80F and there is no salinity in the water. Will either fish die or suffer, will both be fine or will one be more likely to suffer while the other one wont?
My fish will be fine for some time, your fish will likely have problems, may suffer permanent damage and might even die if the exposure is longer than short term. How do I know this? The gobbledygook er science.
Or how about this, how long does it take to acclimate fish to significantly different parameters? And what has to happen for them to adapt v.s. not? Oops more gobbledygook.
I normally put trolls on ignore. It saves me time......
What this means is that one should be aware of the salt tolerances of their fish before they add salt or decide not to add it since there is no universal rule one can follow.
Now the above should surprise few folks since we know that different fish can handle different levels of hardness or TDS. We also know that, in most cases putting salt water fish into fresh water or fresh water fish into salt water will kill many of them. We also know some fish have the ability to transition between the two. But this is the exception, not the rule. So there would be two levels to understanding how some fish can make such a transition. One, the anecdotal answer, is to watch salmon go from the sea to fresh water to spawn. The science would explain how this is possible using technical terminology aka what B i t F call gobbledygook.
One of the more interesting parts of using science to understand things in the hobby has been the fact that most of the studies do not deal with all fish, most fish, or even many fish, instead they deal with specific species. I can find a lot of science on those species and salt, what I cannot find is any science that draws the line for salt tolerance for FW fish in general.
I prefer to say this, when one has no science to backup what they claim, what they say is very likely gobbledygook.
I can also report that entering "tolerance of freshwater fish species to salinity" into Google Scholar produced "About 162,000 results." So this should make it clear that there is a lot of variance and it is the "gobbledygook" that educates many of us.
Take ammonia levels as a perfect example. The non-scientific position is that any ammonia in any tank means you must change massive amount s of water. If you read on just about any fish forum or social media site and you will see the exact same thing. However, read the science and that gobbledygook teaches us this is not the case. It is the level of HN3 in the water than matters, not the total ammonia which includes the NH4. How do we know these two measure in any given tank? Science. Moreover, different species have different tolerance levels for ammonia. How do we know this? Oops more gobbledygook.
So I have my altum angels in pH 6 water with 1 ppm of total ammonia and you have your African cichlids in 8.5 ppm of water with .5 ppm of total ammonia. We have them both at 80F and there is no salinity in the water. Will either fish die or suffer, will both be fine or will one be more likely to suffer while the other one wont?
My fish will be fine for some time, your fish will likely have problems, may suffer permanent damage and might even die if the exposure is longer than short term. How do I know this? The gobbledygook er science.
Or how about this, how long does it take to acclimate fish to significantly different parameters? And what has to happen for them to adapt v.s. not? Oops more gobbledygook.
I normally put trolls on ignore. It saves me time......
@TwoTankAmin I didn’t figure I’d ever be able to fish you in. I’m on fire today !
Frequently asked questions on using salt
Salt has been scientifically proven to have a number of benefits. Matt Clarke scours the journals and speaks to industry experts for the latest on the subject.
www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk
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