Aquarium About To Turn Into A Graveyard

[Rusty8687]

Hi,
 
I am struggling. 
 
a week ago, i lost 2 fish. checked and ammonia was creeping up (at 1.25ppm). Started doing water changes and ammonia wouldn't budge. Found out the fish were being fed twice (sometimes 3) per day because my fiancé was feeding them without me knowing. to get control of the ammonia i used ammo lock (before i found out about the over feeding)
 
Started to bring the ammonia down after this. did partial water change with the final one last night (25%). Ammonia was sitting at 0.75.
 
Got home tonight with cloudy water. PH climbed dramatically, ammonia climbed to the absolute max reading.
 
I have balanced the PH now at 6.8
 
Temperature is at 26 degrees
 
tank is 360 litres and is a community tank
 
i have cleaned out the filter and did a 25% water change
 
i have also been conditioning the water with every water change.
 
all fish are accounted for - nothing dead in there yet. 
 
fish have not been fed in 2 days
 
i don't have another tank to do a cycle in.
 
I don't understand how the tank could crash so rapidly within 24 hours when everything was on its way to balancing.
 
i don't want to keep using chemicals but should i drop more ammo lock in there considering the ammonia levels are sooooo high?! what can i do? 
 
 
 
 

 

[Akasha72]

Hi, firstly I'd check your water supply for ammonia - you might find you have a reading there and it's always best to know.
 
Fish produce ammonia constantly and this why we grow bacteria in our filters. This bacteria 'eats' the ammonia and convert it to Nitrite. Another batch of bacteria then grows to 'eat' the nitrite and convert it to nitrate. Nitrate is then used by live plants as food and can be reduced further by partial water changes.
 
You mention that you cleaned the filter. It's possible that you washed away a lot of bacteria and it will take time for this to re-grow and start dealing with the ammonia. 
 
The cloudiness you mention sounds like a bacterial bloom. These are common in new set ups if it bothers you you can deal with it with water changes but it will go away on it's own in time.
 
You mention 'balancing' the pH - how are you doing this please? A pH of 6.8 (if that is coming from your tap) suggests soft water and so the readings for ammonia will actually be ammonium which isn't toxic to fish. Soft water with a low pH can be your friend in these cases. 

 

[tunagirll]

A few things
 
First of all - do not alter the pH of your water, this is always troublesome. What is the normal pH of your tap water?
 
Secondly - how old is the tank? 

 

[Munroco]

i used ammo lock (before i found out about the over feeding)
 
 
Should have used hood lock
 
 

 

[betta fish]

 
i used ammo lock (before i found out about the over feeding)
 
 
Should have used hood lock
 
 

 

Lol, hope you get the issue sorted!

 

[Rusty8687]

thanks everyone. some great advice especially with the tap water information. the tank is 1 month old. first two weeks were perfect, then the overfeeding became the problem which took a week to figure out was happening.
 
I got home today with a fish head and skeleton floating in the water..... heres the story.
 
1.5 weeks ago we did a water change (ammonia back then was being an issue before we got it balanced) and a silver shark went missing. we looked everywhere for it. moved ornaments and the driftwood, checked under everything and he was no where to be seen. Figured he got lost during a water change. i brought a new vacuum thing and hose that had a little bit in the tube to stop fish getting sucked through as i thought this is what may have happened. well the little guy obviously strapped himself to an ammonia bomb and detonated which resulted in such a massive spike in the ammonia levels. kudos to the fish. thanks. this did take a week to happen.
 
i have just completed an 80% water change, got the temperature back, treated the water 20 litres at a time and i have left the PH alone. its reading at 7.4. 
 
i tested the tap water as per your advice and the tap water reads at 7.4. Ammonia reads at 0ppm
 
i have tested the tank 2 hours after the water change - PH is reading at 7.4ppm and ammonia is now reading at 4ppm which is down from 8ppm
 
i have lost no fish, the fish are acting normal - not sitting at the bottom or gasping for air at the top. i haven't fed them in 72 hours. 
 
am i on the right track? how often should i do water changes and how much? these fish must be stressed the hell out.
 
i have not put any chemicals into the tank including the ammo lock - only water conditioner

 

[Akasha72]

Hi again, okay I'm now on track with what's happening. What you've got yourself into is what we call a 'fish in cycle'. Don't panic - we've all been there, myself included. 
Firstly, your doing the right thing in cutting back on feeding - that will help but it won't stop the fish creating ammonia when they breathe. Secondly, never mess with the pH with chemicals, so great that you havn't and also good that you know to use dechlorinator. It's normal for those of us with soft water to find that the tank pH can be lower than your tap pH, this is because soft water has very few minerals that help to hold the pH up. There are also organics and things like certain drift woods that can aid a pH drop. Even certain substrates contain things that help to lower pH. This is all fine and normal. It happens in many members tanks - my own included. My tap pH is 7.4 but my tank ticks over at 6.5. This is because my water in incredibly soft to begin with with a gh/kh of virtually zero (so no minerals) I also have lots of drift wood and a substrate that's also helping to soften things even further. To compensate for this I keep nothing but soft water fish species in my tank and this is what we would advise here.
 
If ammonia is at 80ppm by doing a 50% water change you only lower it by half (40ppm) so to lower it further to a safe level you'll need to change yet more water and keep going until you get it down to zero. Unfortunately your in for a lot of water changing for the next week or two - possibly longer. 
 
Right now it's a case of rescuing this fish in cycle and the best advice would be to point you in the direction of our beginners section. There are some great pinned posts there that will take you through what is going on and what to do about it. It will save me from typing out a similar reply aswell. 
 
Here's a link http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/433769-rescuing-a-fish-in-cycle-gone-wild-part-i/
 
There are other useful pinned posts there too for you to read including a second part to fish in cycles.
 
And before I leave you to read I can tell you that anything in your tank that is dead or dying will cause what you call 'an ammonia bomb' (I love that! Gotta remember that one lol) this included any rotting plant leaves, dead fish, snails and shrimps and of course food. Next time you water change use your new syphon to hover over the substrate to suck up any bits of food that might be there. If the substrate is pebbles or gravel you can even dig it in in a few places - of course you can't do this if it's sand - that will leave you with no sand in the tank!
 
Hope that helps you and good luck

 

[eaglesaquarium]

i have tested the tank 2 hours after the water change - PH is reading at 7.4ppm and ammonia is now reading at 4ppm which is down from 8ppm
 
i have lost no fish, the fish are acting normal - not sitting at the bottom or gasping for air at the top. i haven't fed them in 72 hours. 
 
am i on the right track? how often should i do water changes and how much? these fish must be stressed the hell out.
 
i have not put any chemicals into the tank including the ammo lock - only water conditioner

 
Water changes need to be done until the free ammonia in the water is below 0.02ppm - though 0.05ppm can be 'tolerated' (in a situation like this where the fish have been exposed to such high levels, its best to get it down to as low as absolutely possible)
 
Use this calculator to determine that:  https/www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php
 
You are in a 'FISH IN' cycle.  This is extremely dangerous for your fish, and you need to get the ammonia down ASAP!!!
 
 
Step 1: Do a complete water change... take the water down to the lowest level you can so that your fish can just barely swim vertically still... then slowly refill with temp matched, dechlorinated water.  (During this water change, be sure to do a very thorough gravel vac to remove as much extra food as humanly possible to keep that from contaminating things.)
 
Step 2: DECREASE, but do NOT eliminate feeding the fish.  Feeding a tiny amount every other or every 3rd day will be beneficial.  The fish can actually better tolerate the ammonia present when they are being fed than they can while being fasted.
 
 
Step 3: Monitor and water change as frequently as necessary - including multiple times a day until the ammonia is under control, then watch for nitrite!  Nitrite can be controlled with salt - depending on the species of fish.
 
Step 4: Seek out some established bacteria.  Filter media from 'healthy' tanks will have lots of bacteria to really kick start this process and dramatically decrease your work load.  

 

[Rusty8687]

FISH ARE FOOD - NOT FRIENDS!
 
thanks everyone, such an amazing forum and your all so helpful.
 
I'm at a point with this where even the slightest thing is major milestone. part of me wants to quit this whole thing, but i won't. not yet. 
 
got home - no fish dead. WIN.
tested ammonia and PH - no change
 
first thing i did tonight was feed the fish. left them for half hour - conducted water change. 
 
I have done a massive water change, even more than i did last night. left just enough water to swim. 
 
just finished replacing the water and used water conditioner again.
 
tested the PH - reading at 7.4 - have not done anything to the PH.
 
temperature is at 26 degrees
 
tested the ammonia - got a massive drop. now sitting at 1ppm - used the calculator which gives me a result of 0.0155ppm of NH3
 
 
so in summary
 
Original test once the kamikaze ammonia fish detonated himself - PH 8.6 / Ammonia 8
yesterday 80% water change - ammonia was at 4ppm / PH was at 7.4
Today after major water change - ammonia 1ppm / PH 7.4
 
did a stick test for nitrites/nitrates/gh/kh (i hate stick tests so will get a proper test kit)
stick test shows;
 
120 GH / 120 KH
0 nitrite
20 nitrate
 
my ammonia test did not go a dark green - instead it has a yellow tinge to it and very light green. i am at a point where any win is a milestone right now and that is a major win for me with all things considered. that and not having lost any fish in the last 24 hours.

 

[Akasha72]

Hi again, it sounds like you are getting on track. The only thing I want to let you know now is the test kits/strips etc. I want to be sure what you are using. The dip strips that you can buy are really inaccurate and we'd never recommend using those. The best water testers are the liquid drop type. You can get one by API, it's called the masterkit. It contains liquid tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. There's others on the market - tetra do one, JBL too - all are as good as each other for giving you accurate test readings. I'd recommend getting one as soon as possible if you havn't got one already. It will last you a while and with a fish in cycle you really do need one so you can keep on top of what is happening

 

[Rusty8687]

thanks akasha. The test strips i got with the tank. never used them until now only for the reason to check nitrate/nitrite. I purchased the dropper kits for PH and ammonia separately and have been testing with those for obviously the ph and ammonia balance ever since i started the tank 4-6 weeks

 
completely agree with the test strips - every check gives a different result....
 
I'm heading to the fish shop tomorrow after work to get more water conditioner and some new test kits

I'm already using API for the ammonia and the PH and will stick with them as that appears to what everyone recommends.
 
i also spoke to the fish shop today and they are gladly donating me some sponge filters etc to chuck into the tank as well to aid the good bacteria production. My question though - should i put that stuff in tomorrow when i get it? or should i wait till I've done further water changes to drive the ammonia down further??

 

[eaglesaquarium]

i also spoke to the fish shop today and they are gladly donating me some sponge filters etc to chuck into the tank as well to aid the good bacteria production. My question though - should i put that stuff in tomorrow when i get it? or should i wait till I've done further water changes to drive the ammonia down further??

 
You want to add it as soon as possible.  The bacteria in the sponge will help you not need to do as many or as large water changes.
 
 
Don't just chuck the sponge(s) into the tank though, replace some of your filter media with this.  Its best to add this to the filter as the first thing that the water coming from the tank hits, in case any of the bacteria are 'loose' can be 'captured' by the other media and they can then colonize the new media.  Eventually, they will colonize every surface, but its best to get them into the spot with the most flow (the filter) to have the greatest impact right away!
 
 
And don't be afraid to cut up the sponges as much as you need to... You want to make it a snug fit (but not smashed) in the filter so that the water has to go THROUGH the sponge, and not just go around it.

 

[Akasha72]

^what eagles said^

 

[Rusty8687]

you lot are amazing
 
just tested the PH and ammonia levels again - PH is steady at 7.4 and ammonia hasn't budged at 1. 
 
will follow through with another water change tomorrow and introduce the sponges. I will also buy some more conditioner and some proper dropper tests for the nitrate and nitrite and commence frequent nitrate/nitrite testing.
 
is it a good idea to introduce some real plants once I've got the levels in control? I've read this can help - but other places I've read say no. but your advice is paying off and dramatically helping
 

 

[Akasha72]

great stuff. Just a quick note on Nitrate tests. We've all found that of the liquid drop tests the Nitrate one is the one that tends to be a little bit inaccurate - and that seems to be across the board no matter which brand you buy. Just so you know for future reference