Angelfish Breeding Questions

[lindabrooke]

Just turned on my light and discovered these:

This has happened once before but within 24 hours they were gone.
 
Potential mom?

 
Potential dad?

Mom fanning her eggs (?)

 
So a few questions:
 
- I read the parents end up eating the eggs because they're trying to protect them from invaders- how will I know if the eggs get fertilized?
-How often will the female lay eggs?
- If the eggs are fertile, what's the next step? I read about separating the eggs from the rest of the fish and putting them in a different tank, but if the eggs are on the wall, how would I go about doing that?
- Definitely wanting to learn more about this process!

 

[Munroco]

inthis case to seperate them you would need to remove the fish, I don't think there is any way to scrape the eggs of the tank wall. Maybe using a razor blade would work but they would probably just float away

 

[Gvilleguy]

I am a newbie at Angel breeding - my pair has mated twice in two weeks. First time the eggs were eaten in an hour. The second time they took turns guarding the eggs for two days, but then the eggs were eaten. I'm still waiting for the third mating to see if they get any better at it. I have made changes in my tank to try and provide them more cover in the area where they mate.

 

[Akasha72]

if the eggs are fertile they will be creamy in colour - solid white and they are infertile but they may still guard them even if they are infertile. Regarding how often they spawn - it varies, sometimes it's as regular as every 2-3 weeks but sometimes it's less or more.
 
The fish photographed with the eggs looks like mum - it's a bit grainy on my pc but it looks like she's still displaying her breeding tube. This should slowly got back inside her body over the next 48 hours. Once she's ready to spawn again she'll start to look as if she's eaten too much - plumper than normal - and the breeding tube will begin to discend again.
 
Regarding seperating the eggs - if you try to go near them the parents will attack you and disturbing them and then backing off will likely lead them to eat the eggs. It's best to leave them be and keep things calm. If the eggs are fertile they should hatch in about 3 or 4 days and then you will get what's known as 'wrigglers'. This means that the fry's tail breaks the egg but the head remains inside the egg. The tails will be wriggling like crazy (hence the name) and the fry will consume the yolk sack. Once that process is done the fry will become free swimming. The parents will begin taking the fry to area's where they can eat the tiny (invisable to us) infusoria that grows on decor, plants etc
 
If the fish are young then it may take them some time to get this process right. This is nothing to worry about, they may get it right eventually, or they may not. There is too many variables in these situations. It's a case of seeing how it goes.
 
Hope that helps

 

[lindabrooke]

if the eggs are fertile they will be creamy in colour - solid white and they are infertile but they may still guard them even if they are infertile. Regarding how often they spawn - it varies, sometimes it's as regular as every 2-3 weeks but sometimes it's less or more.
 
The fish photographed with the eggs looks like mum - it's a bit grainy on my pc but it looks like she's still displaying her breeding tube. This should slowly got back inside her body over the next 48 hours. Once she's ready to spawn again she'll start to look as if she's eaten too much - plumper than normal - and the breeding tube will begin to discend again.
 
Regarding seperating the eggs - if you try to go near them the parents will attack you and disturbing them and then backing off will likely lead them to eat the eggs. It's best to leave them be and keep things calm. If the eggs are fertile they should hatch in about 3 or 4 days and then you will get what's known as 'wrigglers'. This means that the fry's tail breaks the egg but the head remains inside the egg. The tails will be wriggling like crazy (hence the name) and the fry will consume the yolk sack. Once that process is done the fry will become free swimming. The parents will begin taking the fry to area's where they can eat the tiny (invisable to us) infusoria that grows on decor, plants etc
 
If the fish are young then it may take them some time to get this process right. This is nothing to worry about, they may get it right eventually, or they may not. There is too many variables in these situations. It's a case of seeing how it goes.
 
Hope that helps

 
If they're in a community tank though- would you remove the eggs from the parents? Thanks so much for the information!

 

[Akasha72]

it's not recommended that you remove the eggs from the parents as they need the care that they give to them. We, as humans, can not really give the eggs the care they need. They need to be fanned pretty much constantly - some have tried to re-create this by placing the eggs near an air stone or filter outlet but from what I've read success is incredibly limited.
 
The parents will clean the eggs too and remove any that are turning fungal - at least they should once they get the hang on things. I've also read that removing them at wriggling stage can leave you with a lot of dead wrigglers. Also by removing eggs or wrigglers the parents never learn to be parents and so will not care for any young. There is also some research to show that fry taken from parents too soon don't learn to care for their own fry later on when their time comes. I can't say this is definite as I've not seen it with my own eyes but the research is there and so to some degree I believe it.
 
When I bred my other cichlids (laetacara curviceps and bolivian rams) I allowed the parents to guard the eggs and the wrigglers and then get them to free swimming stage. After they'd been free swimming for about 24-48 hours I went in with a turkey baster and sucked up a few fry - the parents went balistic and viciously attacked the turkey baster (I was glad it wasn't my arm!) but I left them with the majority of fry and just tried to raise a few myself. I managed to raise 2 rams and over 20 curviceps (curviceps in two seperate batches). This seemed the only way in a community tank as the fry were getting picked off during the night. Perhaps you could consider this method with your angelfish. It's a method I am going to try again should my angel pair finally managed to get them to free swimming!

 

[kazfishdog]

They'll generally spawn again in 7-14 days.  If they keep spawning on the side of the tank & you wish to remove the eggs a silk plant blocking that area (works for filter intakes as well) is easily removable.  The removable aspect is why many angel breeders will use a piece of slate, generally a few inches wide by a foot or so long at about a 60 degree angle.  Most folks who breed angels with intent to sell pull the spawn, you've got much more control of cleanliness & feeding in a hatching & fry tank.  Steve at Angels Plus gives a pretty good rundown on how breeding angels generally goes; http/www.angelsplus.com/ArticleBreeding.htm 

 

[RobRocksFishTank]

I bookmarked Angels Plus. It looks like there is a lot to be learned there. That link isn't to an article, though. The page is just a bunch of compliments. I've got a couple of general questions about Angel breeding and was looking forward to reading it. Can you get the correct link to the article? I couldn't find it in my brief search.

 

[Baccus]

This might be the article you where hoping to read https/angelsplus.com/ArticleBreeding.htm

 

[RobRocksFishTank]

TY for the link, Baccus.
 
It's a good read. it answered one of the questions i had, "How long does it take for fry to reach selling size?"
 
However, it does not go into raising multiple spawns from even one pair.
 
How much tank space does it require to accommodate raising the fry from multiple spawns of just one breeding pair?
 
Should you keep each brood in separate tanks?

 

[Baccus]

I would if possible keep each brood seperate even if they come from the same breeding pair, simply because the fry will always be a different stages of development and smaller newly hatched fry could easily become food for slightly larger fry.
 
As for tank size recommended for each spawning there are too many varibles, firstly the sheer number of fry that hatched from the spawning, and how many will die from multiple reasons along the road of development/ growth. While the fry are small, a smallish tank (but I would still have it with deep sides) could be good so that target feeding can be acheived and frequent water changes wont use quite as much water as it would with a huge tank. That said once the fry start to get larger they will need a bigger tank to prevent any stunting that may occur from over crowding.