Angel Fish Issue

[Didge007]

I have a mature angel fish who has been in this tank for approx. 1yr now. I've owned him for possibley 2yrs + all up. He has a red lip, red behind the mouth, red along the crest of his top fin. He's not under weight, not showing signs of stress, constipation and is eating fine. The red seems to fade a little over night then by the arvo its back. He's living in a 200L 4ft (very high) planted tank with sand substrate, temp 26deg (roughly...my thermometre broke over the weekend and I won't be able to get another until this weekend. Water stats all normal (Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10, pH 7) <- forgive me if I've mixed up the Nitrite and Nitrate. Tank mates include one lonesome female betta, four khulis and one lonesome pepper cory. Yesterday I removed 5 neons, 3 albino corys and two male guppies.

I recently had a bacterial infection go through my sorority of female bettas due to poor water quality (my own fault but it couldn't be helped - looong story!). This seems to have been fixed with weekly 20% water changes (basically doing what I should've been doing). There doesn't seem to be sores on him, it's as if it's coming from within. I suspected internal bacterial infection? I have treated with Tri-Sulpha tabs (lfs suggestion) and really think it's done squat!

It's been going on for about two weeks now, basically since I thought I was out of the woods with my tank issue. Can anyone help me? Like I said he behaves fine, I just don't want to wake up to a dead 'Rocky'

EDIT: I will mention external filter and over the weekend I added an air stone thinking it may help?

 

[WILDER]

The red on the fish fins. Does it look like red streaking?
Does the red on the fish lips look like bleeding beneath the skin. Or just red patches?

It sounding like septicemia.

Is the fish acting listless and lethagic?
Does the fish look pale, or darker in colour?
Is the fish resting on bottom of tank?

You need to isolate the sick fish and use antibiotics. Like tetracycline.
Antibiotics wipe all the good bacteria out in your filter. So it's best to isolate.
Water changes on main tank. As the bacteria from the fish can enter the tank water.,

 

[BerryAttack]

Angel fish that do not eat, are not bloated, have no red blood streaks in their fins or body, are not clamped or slimed, usually have internal parasites.
Angel fish that have red streaks around the mouth or base of the dorsal usually have a systemic (internal) bacterial infection. Do not use a heat treatment for any suspected bacterial diseases. If the angel fish is still eating, your best bet is to try a flake food that has an anti-biotic added to it. Angel fish that are very bloated, likely have a type of internal bacterial infection that has affected the kidneys. Angel fish exhibiting this symptom are usually too far gone to be saved. If you catch this type of angel fish disease early when the fish is still eating, then a medicated food with an antibiotic in it may work.

http/www.angelsplus.com/faqhealth.htm

add some pictures or a video if you can then it helps to see what it is if there is an image.

 

[Didge007]

The red on the fish fins. Does it look like red streaking?
Does the red on the fish lips look like bleeding beneath the skin. Or just red patches?

It sounding like septicemia.

Is the fish acting listless and lethagic?
Does the fish look pale, or darker in colour?
Is the fish resting on bottom of tank?

You need to isolate the sick fish and use antibiotics. Like tetracycline.
Antibiotics wipe all the good bacteria out in your filter. So it's best to isolate.
Water changes on main tank. As the bacteria from the fish can enter the tank water.,

As I said before, fish is acting normal. It's not listless or lethargic, colour is normal and not sitting on the bottom. It doesn't really look like bleeding under the skin to me...it's hard to explain, it's almost like a rash I guess It's near impossible to isolate this fish. He's a big boy and the only tank I could put him in is a 60L (which is too low for him in my opinion). I don't have any filter media on the go to put him in an isolation tank either He'll need a filter won't he?

Angel fish that do not eat, are not bloated, have no red blood streaks in their fins or body, are not clamped or slimed, usually have internal parasites.
Angel fish that have red streaks around the mouth or base of the dorsal usually have a systemic (internal) bacterial infection. Do not use a heat treatment for any suspected bacterial diseases. If the angel fish is still eating, your best bet is to try a flake food that has an anti-biotic added to it. Angel fish that are very bloated, likely have a type of internal bacterial infection that has affected the kidneys. Angel fish exhibiting this symptom are usually too far gone to be saved. If you catch this type of angel fish disease early when the fish is still eating, then a medicated food with an antibiotic in it may work.

http/www.angelsplus.com/faqhealth.htm

add some pictures or a video if you can then it helps to see what it is if there is an image.

He eats normally and the red isn't really streaks. I'll try to get a photo because it's hard to explain. Thank you for advising not to use a heat treatment - I had read if it's internal bacterial infection not to use heat treatment. My LFS suggested to raise the heat (which I wasn't happy to do regardless as the cory would suffer) and I was pretty sure I shouldn't. He's not really bloated either. Just healthy I'll see if I can find what medicated food is available. Will it effect my other fish if they eat it?

 

[WILDER]

Sorry. I read that many post tonight you start to get brain fog.

A red rash on the fish can also be septicemia.

The medicated food won't harm the other fish in the tank, but the problem is they can
build a resistance up to antibiotics.
So it far better if you only feed the sick fish the medicated food.
But then saying that septicemia can pass onto other fish throw cuts and wound. As fluids can leak from the fish into the tank water.

 

[Didge007]

I'll see if I can find some. The Angel eats before everyone else anyways so I doubt the other fish will get a chance if I'm sneaky. Noone else seems sick at this stage. The female betta is the only other who eats off the top and even she has to size her food up before attacking it

Thanks for the help

 

[WILDER]

OK.
Good Luck.

 

[Didge007]

Photos:
(They aren't very good as they were taken on the iPhone, and for some reason they aren't as obvious on the photos as in RL)

Red lip and just behind the lip on orange patch.

Red dorsal crest.

Red underneath side fin (lucky shot!)

 

[Didge007]

I'm also reading a lot of antibiotic medications (such as Metronidazole) are unavailable in Australia, those that are available are only through prescription (obviously human medication).

 

[Didge007]

RED ALERT!!
There IS streaking on his fins, still very faint and only would have developed today but it's there. Female betta looks slightly discoloured, patchy. No scales are missing or poking out like dropsy symptoms. Her tail has red on it, although I don't remember if this was her markings before as there was guppies chewing her tail and it's only just started recovering. She does have red on her ventrals that have always been there. She seems very solid up near her head though. Not bloated just solid?

Also last cory sitting on the bottom of the tank not eating, not moving, and every so often the filter movement pushes him over and he just lies on his side. Still breathing, seems a little rapid.

I'm about to test water and then do a change. Please help my fishies! If it is Septicemia, is there anything else I can treat with? My LFS doesn't have or has even heard of (no surprise) antibiotic food. I have aquarium salt I can use if that might help, I realise I need to be careful with my cory and I also have Khulis but I need to do something.

If the worst occurs and they die, do I need to empty my whole tank and replace sand, plants, etc?

 

[Didge007]

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 5-10ppm (I can tell the difference in the colour)

 

[Didge007]

May be able to get hold of something tommorrow...wish me luck

 

[WILDER]

Let us all know how he gets on. That's if you don't mind.
Good Luck.

 

[Didge007]

I don't mind at all I just hope they survive