TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
I spent hours writing a detailed response to Ianho in this thread http/www.fishforum...20#entry3313565
Then I decided I was wasting my time and would be further cluttering up a thread inappropriately, so here is where I decided to take this conversation.
Ianho you made the following comment in that thread:
First, you have repeatedly made references to Dr, Hovanec being my "mate" etc. I have never met the man, nor spoken with him on the phone. I have exchanged emails with him 3 times- the first when it was to ask if I could purchase his ammonium chloride without buying the bacteria. Most of the content of the other two exchanges I reprinted on this site and you have read and commented on them if my old memory serves me. To say he is my "mate" is off the mark. Also, none of my links in that post leads to anything by Hovanec. Especially not any of the 1st 3.
I do believe his co-authored work is some of the only pure aquarium related research out there you can find. His bacterial products are based on his research papers. The patents he and his co-researchers hold in the USA and overseas are based on a lot of that research. What bacteria goes into his bottles is the bacteria from his research.
You have repeatedly called his products and research into question. So now its my opportunity to try to make your first year university professors very proud of you. The full and complete texts, graphs, charts, photographs, methods and conclusions, every piece of information you claim you need to critique these two paper has been freely and fully available for a number of years now.
AOB paper- http/aem.asm.org/c...1.full.pdf+html
NOB paper- http/www.timhovane...les/page8_2.pdf
I realize it may take you some time to wade through them, but I am patient. Heck, I am basically a nice guy and I don't want to overtax you, pick either one, you don't need to do both. And since this is the scientific section of the forums, when you rspond, you don't have to "dumb" things down in your responses. Make them as technical as needed and if I don't understand what you might say, I do know who to ask who will, and they can explain it to me.
Ianho, with all respect, the stage is yours, dazzle us with science.
ps I would like to post one tiny snippet from the NOB study as it might influence your decision which paper to choose, especially since this paper was written over 4 years before Bio-Spira was released:
"Three of the aquaria (the treatment group) were each given doses of 8 ml of bacterial additive (Cycle; Rolf C. Hagen Inc., Mansfield, Mass.) on the first day and once every 7 days afterwards for an additional 3 weeks. The other three aquaria were the control group and did not receive an additive."
Then I decided I was wasting my time and would be further cluttering up a thread inappropriately, so here is where I decided to take this conversation.
Ianho you made the following comment in that thread:
TTA with all respect, we cannot critique these articles as they are only abstracts. I have to pay to read both articles, reading an abstract is not good enough, this is what we got taught in our first year at university. The abstract doesn't explain HOW the experiment were done, it doesn't go into specific products, we don't know if in anyway the results were skewed cos we can't read them.
If you click the first abstract there's a article by you mate Dr Tim...there's your evidence of a company doing there own research.
First, you have repeatedly made references to Dr, Hovanec being my "mate" etc. I have never met the man, nor spoken with him on the phone. I have exchanged emails with him 3 times- the first when it was to ask if I could purchase his ammonium chloride without buying the bacteria. Most of the content of the other two exchanges I reprinted on this site and you have read and commented on them if my old memory serves me. To say he is my "mate" is off the mark. Also, none of my links in that post leads to anything by Hovanec. Especially not any of the 1st 3.
I do believe his co-authored work is some of the only pure aquarium related research out there you can find. His bacterial products are based on his research papers. The patents he and his co-researchers hold in the USA and overseas are based on a lot of that research. What bacteria goes into his bottles is the bacteria from his research.
You have repeatedly called his products and research into question. So now its my opportunity to try to make your first year university professors very proud of you. The full and complete texts, graphs, charts, photographs, methods and conclusions, every piece of information you claim you need to critique these two paper has been freely and fully available for a number of years now.
AOB paper- http/aem.asm.org/c...1.full.pdf+html
NOB paper- http/www.timhovane...les/page8_2.pdf
I realize it may take you some time to wade through them, but I am patient. Heck, I am basically a nice guy and I don't want to overtax you, pick either one, you don't need to do both. And since this is the scientific section of the forums, when you rspond, you don't have to "dumb" things down in your responses. Make them as technical as needed and if I don't understand what you might say, I do know who to ask who will, and they can explain it to me.
Ianho, with all respect, the stage is yours, dazzle us with science.
ps I would like to post one tiny snippet from the NOB study as it might influence your decision which paper to choose, especially since this paper was written over 4 years before Bio-Spira was released:
"Three of the aquaria (the treatment group) were each given doses of 8 ml of bacterial additive (Cycle; Rolf C. Hagen Inc., Mansfield, Mass.) on the first day and once every 7 days afterwards for an additional 3 weeks. The other three aquaria were the control group and did not receive an additive."