Ammonia Meter Accuracy

[jdstephe]

I bought a small (2") pleco about 4 months ago to inhabit my outdoor (2,000 gal) pond, mainly for algae cleaning duty but I also think these fish are pretty cool when they reach a good size. With the Michigan winter approaching I managed to catch it, and bring it in to what was my Koi hospital tank (10 gal).

The pleco is now approximately 3-4" long and seems to be perfectly healthy. Has good movement, eats OK etc. I have an air pump suitable for up to 15 gal, a biowheel filter sized for up to 20 gal tanks.

The problem I seem to have is that two different makes of "live" ammonia meters (Mardel Live NH3 and Seachem) and both are showing what they class as "toxic" levels of ammonia, and have been doing for some time. How reliable are these meters? The fish continues to be healthy and shows no symptoms of ammonia posioning.

Obviously I am concerned and have tried many different solutions from water changes, to addition of various API products (AmmoLock, StressZyme, StressCoat) but none seem to make a difference to the so-called "live" functionality of these meters. When I use dipping strips, they always show ideal pH, total alkalinity, no nitrate and no nitirite.

Can the chemicals I've added impact these live meters to give false "high" readings, or am I likely to have a real problem here? I don't overfeed and the fish seems to have plenty of room.

Please help with any advice or suggestions. Do I need a bigger tank?

Regards,

James.

 

[rabbut]

I bought a small (2") pleco about 4 months ago to inhabit my outdoor (2,000 gal) pond, mainly for algae cleaning duty but I also think these fish are pretty cool when they reach a good size. With the Michigan winter approaching I managed to catch it, and bring it in to what was my Koi hospital tank (10 gal).

The pleco is now approximately 3-4" long and seems to be perfectly healthy. Has good movement, eats OK etc. I have an air pump suitable for up to 15 gal, a biowheel filter sized for up to 20 gal tanks.

The problem I seem to have is that two different makes of "live" ammonia meters (Mardel Live NH3 and Seachem) and both are showing what they class as "toxic" levels of ammonia, and have been doing for some time. How reliable are these meters? The fish continues to be healthy and shows no symptoms of ammonia posioning.

Obviously I am concerned and have tried many different solutions from water changes, to addition of various API products (AmmoLock, StressZyme, StressCoat) but none seem to make a difference to the so-called "live" functionality of these meters. When I use dipping strips, they always show ideal pH, total alkalinity, no nitrate and no nitirite.

Can the chemicals I've added impact these live meters to give false "high" readings, or am I likely to have a real problem here? I don't overfeed and the fish seems to have plenty of room.

Please help with any advice or suggestions. Do I need a bigger tank?

Regards,

James.

You may well have a problem. A healthy filter will keep ammonia and nitrite at 0, with a steady rise in nitrates. The fact that you have 0 nitrates surgests to me that the filter is not yet established, and that ammonia is indead high. The only way to tell for cirtain would be to use a liquid test kit for ammonia, as the dip strips are notoirously innaccurate. Bottled chemicals will often caurse missleading readings, so I would recomend using only tap water conditioner when doing waterchanges. A common plec, as you probibly know, will reach over 1foot in length in a pond, so a 10gal will not hold him for more the two-three months. Your options for winter with him in future, are to either heat the pond, or get a 5X2X2 foot tank to hold him through winter. Do you know anyone localy with a mature fish tank? If so, taking some of their filter media (or some media from your own pond) an placing it in the 10gals filter will quickly reduce the ammonia, and start the bio-filtration working properly. Is the QT tank heated? Plecos are technicaly temporate fish, an need to be kept on or above 18 degrees centigrade as a minimum, they will prefur 22-24.
HTH
rabbut

EDIT: sorry, just realised that your new, so Welcome the the forum

 

[jdstephe]

Thanks for the advice. A man from Leeds I see. I am from Doncaster originally before moving out here to the USA last year. I kind of inherited the outdoor pond but it is so nice I quickly decided to try and keep fish in there, starting with some goldfish before moving on to some small and relatively cheap Koi. They're all doing OK, especially now that the Heron seems to be deterred!

We don't have chlorinated tap water in the house, more well water, but is treated with salt for hardness control. However, that being said, I do believe there is some level of ammonia in this too (we drink filtered water from the fridge!) Therefore I've started doing some 25% water changes and I am replacing old with that from the outdoor pond which I know is good quality as it is very established and the fish in there are fine.

When you say get some media from the outdoor pond, what exactly do you mean? I have a large skimmer filter that has the typical net and two large nylon filters, and I believe there is a bio filter in the riser to the waterfall, although I have nevery touched that or looked inside it. I just seed the pond regularly with beneficial bacteria. What should I be looking for to place in the 10 gallon tank's filter?

Thanks again for the advice and the stupid questions!!

 

[Thunk]

Thanks for the advice. A man from Leeds I see. I am from Doncaster originally before moving out here to the USA last year. I kind of inherited the outdoor pond but it is so nice I quickly decided to try and keep fish in there, starting with some goldfish before moving on to some small and relatively cheap Koi. They're all doing OK, especially now that the Heron seems to be deterred!

We don't have chlorinated tap water in the house, more well water, but is treated with salt for hardness control. However, that being said, I do believe there is some level of ammonia in this too (we drink filtered water from the fridge!) Therefore I've started doing some 25% water changes and I am replacing old with that from the outdoor pond which I know is good quality as it is very established and the fish in there are fine.

When you say get some media from the outdoor pond, what exactly do you mean? I have a large skimmer filter that has the typical net and two large nylon filters, and I believe there is a bio filter in the riser to the waterfall, although I have nevery touched that or looked inside it. I just seed the pond regularly with beneficial bacteria. What should I be looking for to place in the 10 gallon tank's filter?

Thanks again for the advice and the stupid questions!!

First off I am completely new to fish keeping. I jsut had a ammonia spike in my tank this last week and had looked into useing ammo-lock or the other treatments. One thing these treats all say is that they will still give ammonia readings in your tank. They just make the ammonia less toxic to your fish.

If your tank has 0 nitrates that means it has not been cycled. So people are advising you to get some gravel or other object out of a established tank which contains nitrates to get the system working. Ammonia is excreted by fish, then turns to nitrite, then nitrate. Nitrate is what you want. ammonia and nitrite should always be 0 in a cycled tank. the reaction happens so fast you will never get a reading for anything but nitrates.

Glad to hear the pleco is doing well. Just remember to keep in mind that ammonia poisoning might not show signs for a few days. I would say get a liquid dropper test and find out exactly what levels you are dealing with. Water changes are your friend!!!

Maybe some other more expirienced people can chim in and correct or add what i have posted too, lol.

 

[eschaton]

Thanks for the advice. A man from Leeds I see. I am from Doncaster originally before moving out here to the USA last year. I kind of inherited the outdoor pond but it is so nice I quickly decided to try and keep fish in there, starting with some goldfish before moving on to some small and relatively cheap Koi. They're all doing OK, especially now that the Heron seems to be deterred!

We don't have chlorinated tap water in the house, more well water, but is treated with salt for hardness control. However, that being said, I do believe there is some level of ammonia in this too (we drink filtered water from the fridge!) Therefore I've started doing some 25% water changes and I am replacing old with that from the outdoor pond which I know is good quality as it is very established and the fish in there are fine.

When you say get some media from the outdoor pond, what exactly do you mean? I have a large skimmer filter that has the typical net and two large nylon filters, and I believe there is a bio filter in the riser to the waterfall, although I have nevery touched that or looked inside it. I just seed the pond regularly with beneficial bacteria. What should I be looking for to place in the 10 gallon tank's filter?

Thanks again for the advice and the stupid questions!!

On this forum, you'll often see people talk about tanks "cycling." This means the period of time it takes for a colony of bacteria to develop to process fish waste.

Fish pee and poo naturally produces ammonia, which quickly becomes toxic to aquatic life. In the first step in a cycle, one type of bacteria converts this ammonia to nitrite. Nitrite is also highly poisonous. Then, once ammonia levels fall enough, another type of bacteria begins to breed and converts the nitrite to nitrate - which isn't anywhere near as toxic to fish.

The whole cycling process can take up to six weeks, especially if you're doing water changes all the while. By plunking a fish into a new tank with no mature, cycled filter media, you're making it highly likely it will die or have a reduced lifespan. Water changes will decrease the ammonia, but they will need to be done daily (plecos are poop machines) and inhibit the growth of filter bacteria, so you'll have your work cut out for a long, long time. Ammo-lock does help quite a good deal, but it also inhibits your cycle.

There are two ways to shortcut this. One is to get mature filter media from someone else in your area. It needs to be treated "like a fish" however - must not be left out of water longer than a few minutes, and can't be left in a bag longer than a few hours. The second way is to dump in some cheap, fast-growing aquatic plants which should soak up some of the ammonia directly.

Starting is the worst part. I think all of us have been through this. Once you have a cycled filter, you can switch it off from place to place. a 15 gallon will be too small for your Plec in the long run though, as I'm sure you know. And you'll need to keep some fish in there over the summer to make sure the bacteria have waste to eat - or find a way to hook it up to your pond directly.

 

[jdstephe]

Thanks again for the advice.

I have performed another 25% water change today and cut a small piece of the bio-filter mat out of the riser in the waterfall from my outdoor pond and placed it in the corner of the tank. I have also brought in some small rocks and added these too. Hopefully these have collected some of the beneficial bacteria.

I will go out and buy a liquid test kit tomorrow and see what levels really are in there and see where that leaves me.

I'll then have to convice the wife that I need to buy a 5x2x2 tank

 

[edgelgil]

How deep is your pond?
I live out here in the high plains desert of northern Utah, most of the ponds around here have deep holes and heaters installed for the winter months. Fish will go into a hybornation period during the real cold months and actually slow to a crawl. If your pond is deep enough, you could incorporate a filte pump and heater system to the pond. Plecos need plenty of room for growth and require a rather medium to large tank for excercising. Minimum of 20 gallon long on up.
Depth is no issue, they require space to swim for busy time. Like a person on a treadmil or actually going out in the hood for a strole.
Good luck,
Maximo