Ammonia/cycling Issue

[Zephyrkaze]

Hello all,

I am new to keeping fish and have made many mistakes right off the bat. I'm hoping you guys can help me out. I've tried to detail everything below but I included a list of my questions at the bottom.

We recently purchased (at least three weeks ago, I'm bad with time) a 40 gallon tank. We now have 6 platys (3 Mickey's and 3 Red Wags), 2 Tetras, and 1 small catfish. I know, I know, we should have done a fishless cycle or even a cycle with just a fish or two but we didn't know at the time and now this is the situation we've got.

When we first noticed high ammonia levels we bought Ammonia Clear but after using that for awhile I determined we couldn't keep adding tabs to solve our problems, it would be an endless cycle so I started doing research. I've seen some sites claim that adding such ammonia neutralizers will hamper the development of the nitrogen cycle. So now I'm not sure what to do to keep the ammonia levels down while the tank cycles. Yesterday I did a water change. The tank was looking gunky and dirty and now the water's nice and clear but the ammonia levels are rising again. We have an ammonia tester that sits in the tank, its a colored wheel labelled SAFE <.02ppm, ALERT .05ppm, ALARM .2ppm, and TOXIC .5ppm. Right now the color of the patch in the middle is matching ALERT. Most of the fish seem perfectly fine however one of the tetras has been swimming for the past few days at the bottom of the tank. I don't think he's eating. His color is still good tho. I think he might be getting bullied out of eating because I've caught the other tetra chase him a couple times and I've started to feed them a lot less so they've been more competitive about food.

Other happenings:

About a week ago we completely changed the filter, its one of those that sits on the back of the tank and has a carbon filter and a regular course-spongy one. We rinsed out the latter and changed the former. I know now not to change both at once.

We went on vacation (2 days over the weekend) and left vacation feeder food in the tank. None of the fish looked as vibrant as they normally do but the tetras were completely bleached of color and were clear. What's with that?

Also recently the fish were all swimming near the top of the tank and Hoover (our catfish) was doing mad dashes to the surface so I lowered the amount of water in the tank so the filter would splash more and then added in an airstone and filled the tank up again at yesterday's water change. And the fish seem to be fine.

I've read a lot now about cycling a tank but none of the sites I found gave advice if you had TOO MANY fish and I haven't seen anyone discuss water changing every day so I don't know if that's good, bad, or bad but necessary or what.

Stats:
GH 180
KH 240
pH 8
No Nitrite or Nitrate
Temp 76-78
Fake plants and wood only

Questions:
Is it ok to do water changes every day to keep the ammonia levels down?
How low is too low? EDIT: Any amount is enough, right?
At what level of ammonia will the fish be truly in trouble? EDIT: its .25ppm right?
If I change the water every day or every couple days should I avoid cleaning the gravel unless its really dirty?
Any suggestions about my tetra?
Is the TopFin Vacation feeder not good for fish?
Should I try to lower the pH? I have TopFin pH Decrease and have read that ammonia isn't toxic below 7?
Would using distilled water help at all?
When I did the water change yesterday I added Aqueon Water Conditioner to the bucket of tap water. Do I have to let it sit or stir it? It says it works instantly but I find that hard to believe.
Should I add more aquarium salt after every water change?

Thanks! I know this is a lot but I'm really worried about the ammonia levels being too high/not getting my cycle on track and my poor unhappy tetra.

Thank you,

~K

 

[drobbyb]

Hi K. Welcome to TFF! Ok, looks as if you have jumped in firmly with both feet! That's ok as many new fish keepers do the same thing. Don't panic! Firstly, you will need to get those ammonia levels down. We accomplish this by means of water changes. Those ammonia removing chemicals don't actually remove ammonia, they simple change it to a compound called ammonium. This compound is less toxic to fish than ammonia, but it still isn't desired. What you will need to have on hand, if you don't have it already, is a quality liquid based test kit. I prefer and use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. It seems like it is expensive at first, but after comparing on a test by test basis, it is actually a lot cheaper and more accurate than the test strips and those in tank monitoring testers. Ideally you would test the levels of ammonia in the tank, and change a percentage of water based on the concentration of ammonia. Since you have one of those monitoring in tank tests already, we can get a rough estimate from it. You need to aim for 0 ammonia in the tank, and keep the concentration below .25 ppm. This can be hard to do without a good test kit, so from here I would say an 80% water change is in order. This will cut your concentration of ammonia by 80%. Until you can source a good test kit, do this water change daily. Don't worry about stressing out your fish with the frequent large water changes as the ammonia can be lethal and is far more stress than new water could ever hope to be.

Phew! With that out of the way, we need to get you to reading some articles written by our very own members here on TFF. These articles are the result of many years of hands on experience and wisdom. The LFS (local fish store) will probably tell you to not listen to those chaps online, but I assure you, the information contained in those articles is correct.

OK! On to the info. Those articles can be found in our very own Beginners Rescource Center Be prepared to read for a while. The information contained in those articles will get you right on track.



If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask. We love answering questions!

 

[PDSimon]

edit: drobbyb beat me to it

 

[JoshuaA]

I vouch for the API Master test kit, it is an extremely valuable piece of kit.

I also fell into the same situation so I have been struggling to get the ammonia down, a few huge water changes over a period of 4/5 days and you will have it so low you'll hardly believe it. Once its that low using the API master test it I would advise doing a check in the morning and then one in the evening. If any of the results show a high level of ammonia then get ready to water change, 50% +.

It can be very tedious but once you have the ammonia at a controllable level and not as toxic you will then be able to workout how much water you need to remove from the tank and replace to keep the ammonia at acceptable levels.

Finally from what I've also been told, cut down on the feeding! Keep it as low as possible and make sure you're not over feeding. Every bit helps! I noticed that there was a lot of uneaten food got stuck to the seam stuck on the inside and getting a clean untreated rag to wipe it off helps. Get that gravel vacuum out as well!

Good luck!

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, great advice above from Robby and Josh. Especially nice to get a recent personal story like Josh tells as its exactly right, it basically is going to boil down to a bunch of very large water changes to get things under control and then when your kit is available you'll be able to fine tune how much water changing you need to do. You don't need special water, you want it to be your tap water. You want to dose a good conditioner (like Prime, but whatever you have will do for now) at 1.5x to 2x what it tells you (not more than 2x though.) You want to temperature match (your hand is good enough.) And much more important than you'd think is that the outgoing water needs to be coming out as the result of you using a gravel-cleaning siphon and deep cleaning the gravel each time. Its not as much about the debris that you can see as its that the toxins you want to get out will to some extent hang down in the gravel and are invisible. Its weight and molecular charge that can cause a bit of this. Don't use aquarium salt. All you need is tap water, conditioner, water changing with good technique and your test kit, which we can further discuss once it comes, but basically the others have covered it and the rabbut article on Fish-In cycling covers it. Its very hard work and you may want to look into direct hose methods. Many of us do that.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Zephyrkaze]

Thanks guys! I can bet I'll have more questions once I have some time to do the reading I was linked to, but for now I just wanted to let you know: message received!

 

[chrisbassist]

Good luck!

The water changes can be hard work!

However from experience, the fish in cycle has a major advantage. You will get used to doing major water changes and other maintenance on a daily basis. And because you're used to it, when everything is fine, your weekly maintenance will feel like a massive drop in the maintenance required. Instead of adding fish and suddenly having to keep up with water changes, making you feel like the tank is adding more work...

Be aware, this cycle will take time. Expect to be doing daily changes for a month at least. Then it'll drop to every other day. And eventually just the weekly ones. It's hard work, but it's worth it. Good luck.

 

[wetdog]

Good luck!

The water changes can be hard work!

However from experience, the fish in cycle has a major advantage. You will get used to doing major water changes and other maintenance on a daily basis. And because you're used to it, when everything is fine, your weekly maintenance will feel like a massive drop in the maintenance required. Instead of adding fish and suddenly having to keep up with water changes, making you feel like the tank is adding more work...

Be aware, this cycle will take time. Expect to be doing daily changes for a month at least. Then it'll drop to every other day. And eventually just the weekly ones. It's hard work, but it's worth it. Good luck.

morning pal, here's my ten penneth for what its worth..............i currently have an ammonia problem, i'm doing 50% water changes daily. a right royal pain but required. mine is coming down nicely i might add. the general feedback i am getting is not to feed the fish for a week, and be careful with the amounts. do not overfeed or leave uneaten food on the substrate. i now feed small amounts 2/3 times a day. once your tank has cycled and fish are introduced, food and fish waste then cause the ammonia spike. this is why you dont feed, to let the filter catch up. also are you cleaning your sponge in tank water, do not clean in tap/freshwater this just kills the bacteria within. another lesson learnt for me there

i hope my advice is sound, its what i'm being told anyhow.

mick.

 

[chrisbassist]

Indeed, ultimately the ammonia comes in the food in the form of protein. So reducing the amount going in will definately help. And since chlorine can kill of the bacteria it is wise not to use tap water to clean the filter.