Amazon Leaf Fish

[Sean_Buckley]

I plan on getting an Amazon Leaf Fish (Monocirrhus polyacanthus) or 2, to eat some of my overabundance of Convict cichlid fry. They will be getting a 33 gallon or so (36x18x12) aquarium, with low flow (but adequate filtration), thats fairly densly planted with low-light, large leafed plants, like they would be accustomed to in the wild. I will keep the lighting fairly dim, just bright enough for the plants, as I understand they like dim lighting. Here are my questions: 1. What is an ideal pH for them?
2. How many could I keep in a 33 gallon? I only plan on keeping 2 maximum.
3. Will they do well on a diet of convict cichlid fry, juvenile cons (1" or smaller), guppies, platies, other small livebearers (bred by me), ghost shrimp, and frozen bloodworms, krill, mysis shrimp, etc?
4. If I get 2 males, will they be aggressive towards each other?
5. Could I keep other peaceful, similar area oddballs with them in the 33 gallon (eg. twig catfish, bristlenose catfish, etc?
Thanks!
Sean

 

[Fruitbat]

Sean....

Monocirrhus polyacanthus prefers soft, acidic water (in the area of pH 5.5 - 6.5 with a dH between 2 - 10). In the wild they are found in slow-moving water in areas with practically no living aquatic plants but lots of tree limbs and a leaf-covered bottom and also along the shoreline in areas with dense vegetation. A well-planted tank, especially with broad-leafed plants, would suit them well.

You could easily keep two adult M. polyacanthus in a 33 gallon tank and they should do an excellent job of cleaning up your excess Convict fry. You'll be exceptionally lucky, however, if you get one of these fish that will eat anything other than smaller fish. In most cases they'll starve to death rather than to eat non-living food. I've never had this species show any sort of aggression toward any other fish, including other leaf fish so you should be able to keep a pair of males without any problems.

Other fish can be kept with M. polyacanthus as long as they're too big to swallow and they don't bully the leaf fish. Twig cats (Farlowella and Sturisoma) and bristlenose cats (Ancistrus sp.) should be OK with them but keep in mind that both of those can play merry hell with plants on occasion.

-Joe

 

[Sean_Buckley]

So, if I had a pH of 7.0 or higher, I would have to buffer it, correct? And they would feel at home if I had some root-like branches in the water, with some over-hanging terrestrial vegetation, such as ivy? (I say ivy as I've used it before, with hatchetfish, for surface cover, and it did amazingly well) I would have to have some plants, such as Vallis and Amazon sword, I don't like the look of an unplanted tank at all. I don't try to breed the cons, but they do anyway, but if I had leaf fish, I would probably set up the tank they are in to be ideal for them to breed it. Also, could I breed my own guppies, platies, etc, and feed them as well? Would they feed on ghost shrimp? What about crickets? How does this sound for a stocking plan for the 33 gallon:
1 or 2 leaf fish (depending on the price of them)
An Ancistrus (I am aware that they can bugger up a planted system fairly well)
A few twig catfish (keep in mind that I will research these better)
Possibly and angelfish or two (I'm wary about this, if I get a breeding pair, well, I've had one before, and they were little bastards when it came time to breed. Also, not sure if the leaf fish could compete with these for food...)
Possibly 1 or 2 other small, SA oddballs, if some ever catch my eye and seem compatible.
Thanks a lot!
Sean
BTW, does anyone know the usual price for one of these in Canada? Thanks!
EDIT: Instead of chemically buffering the water, could I use peat in a HOB filter, instead of filter media, to buffer it naturally?

 

[sylvia]

I've never kept leaf fish (have never seen them around here) so I won't comment on leaf-specific questions.

However, I'd avoid adding angels. Like you said, they are liable to turn nasty.

I can also say with certainty that, if they'll eat convict fry, the leaf fish will take livebearer fry or other small fish as well.

I don't know about shrimp but I'd imagine they'd take anything that moves around and resembles some kind of living aquatic creature (though don't take my word for it).

You can deffinately use peat to lower pH (but don't replace all your filter media with peat) and it's actualy a lot safer than chemicals as it's less likely to result in dangerous fluctuations. Just be careful not to change too much water at one time - small, but regular, water changes are much better anyway.

 

[Sean_Buckley]

Ya, I didn't think angels were a very good idea. I read CFC species profile on the leaf fish in the fish index section, and it said that ghost shrimp are used as a staple food. Would the peat also lower the dH? And would the peat lower the pH too much? I wouldn't think of replacing all my filter media with peat. I usually try to filter tanks with several filters, instead of 1 huge one. This way, if one conks out, I'm not up the creek. For this tank, I would over-filter it with several smaller filters along the back, and just use peat in 1. So, the remaining questions:
1. Would the peat lower the pH too much?
2. Would the peat lower the dH as well?
3. Will they eat crickets?
4. Does my stocking plan in my previous post sound good? Minus the angels, of course.
5. Can someone tell me the usual price of these fish? What about in Canada (as thats where I am).
Thanks a lot!
Sean

 

[CFC]

The ammount of effect peat will have really depends on your KH but it will not lower the pH below 6 on its own, however combined with the effects of the nitrogen cycle which naturally acidifies water by releasing organic acids it can lead to the pH dropping below 6 so you need to moniter water conditions regularly and may have to add some kind of buffer (bicarbonate of soda works as well as any) to keep the KH up and the pH stable.

Im not sure what you mean by dH, do you mean dGH? Peat will lower the GH eventually but to a much lesser extent than that of the pH and KH.

I doubt they will eat crickets since they do not take food from the surface.

The twig cats and bristlenose sound like good tankmates, may i suggest banjo catfish as anoher choice?

No idea what they would cost in Canada but here in England leaf fish go for £15 to £20 a fish.

 

[Sean_Buckley]

So, peat will lower the pH to 6, but excess nitrates being turned into nitrogen will lower it below 6? And to keep the KH up, and the pH stable (meaning, not dropping below 6?), I would need to use baking soda? How would I do that? Add it in the water with water changes or what? I'm not exactly sure what I mean by dH either. Fruitbat said that the dH would need to be between 2-10.
I didn't think they would eat crickets, but thought it was worth asking. I have actually been contemplating banjo cats, after reading your species profile on the leaf fish, CFC. I want to keep this tank a sort of small oddball tank. I hope I can find them in Canada. I've asked on a couple of forums where I could find some around where I live, and haven't gotten replies. Thanks!
Sean
EDIT: What would be an ideal nitrate level for the fish? As low as possible?