Altum Angels died.

[David Rickard]

I bought a pair of Altum Angels just over a week ago and this weekend just gone, they both died. The demale on Saturday afternoon and the male on Sunday morning. They where the best fish I've ever kept so far and to make matters worse my missus was really taken with them and for the first time ever, she was quite upset.

Anyway I called the shop where I bought them from first thing Sunday and explained what happened. To cut a long story short, the water chemistry was fine, Nitrates where up slightly but not at lethal levels. It turns out that my 5 Tiger Barbs would have been harrassing the Angels and they just died of stress!!! Now I did inform the shop prior to me buying the Angels and they did warn me to keep an eye on things and if the Barbs got aggressive, to remove them. Well, I kept a watchfull eye on the tank all week and there was never any sign of aggression and certainly no damaged fins to the Angels. When the shop keeper inspected the corpse of the male Angel there was ever so slight damage to the tail fin and this is when he said it was the Barbs that caused the deaths.

Very impressed with the shop though, they gave me a £10 credit note towards replacements which I wasnt expecting.

Thanks to Maidenhead Aquatics at Ascot for your help and understanding.

 

[CFC]

When you say Altum angels do you mean true wild caught angels or F1 offspring from wild caught angels (F1= first generation bred in captivity)? If that is what they were then were you keeping them in very soft acidic water? The water where altums come from has no measurable hardness and a pH of around 5, if you were keeping them in standard tapwater the stress on their systems would have been immense and would have caused their deaths. If you werent keeping them in a soft water tank and they were indead wild or F1 altums then shame on the lfs for not telling you this cos i bet they sure as hell would have been keeping them on a soft water system (if they were they would have been on the same system as the discus and if they stock them stingrays).

 

[timbo_ska]

Mainden head aquatics are BLOODY good! my favourite lfs and where i get all my fish from, except out swindon branch

 

[sanj]

That is very sad, I am sorry about that they are really beatiful fish.

I have got to say though, the Tiger barb thing seems a bit iffy to me. I know that they definatley can be buggers, but it doesnt seem very convincing to me, especially when you have been watching the aquarium.

How many do you keep? I had a siamese figher for nearly a year (was probably in his prime when I got him), but my 6 tigers never gave him a problem.

Ofcourse every fish is different, but it doesnt seem like a certainty what happened here.

I understand Altums can be very sensitive to water conditions. Are they tank bred or wild caught?

They may already have been stressed out if wild caught, also depends on how long they were in the dealers tanks.

Still due to the uncertainty it was good of the store to give some compensation.

Good luck if you try the magain in the future.

Btw I think there is a Scalare form that looks like an Altum except it has black stripes instead of brown. I am not sure if these are wild caught or a bred variety of Scalare. Perhaps hardier? just not the real thing.

 

[David Rickard]

thnaks for the comments everyone.

CFC,

My mistake, when I referref to Altum Angel's I meant the standard looking variety, not veil-tail/marble/black etc. Mine were just the normal grey/silver body with vertical brown/black stripes. Cant remember the exact species name but all I do remember is they cost £15 each but I got them for £25 the pair.

Sanj,

I have 5 Tiger Barbs and although they dart around the tank in a pack and even let my 4 Clown Loaches join the gang in the evening they are certainly not overly aggressive. In fact I would go so far as to say they are less aggressive than a pair of Firemouths I had a couple of years ago. Now they were boistrous

Anyway, I've learnt a valuable lesson here and I know I have to give up my beloved Tigers and p/ex them when I get the replacement Angels. I've also decided to go for external filtration on my Fluval Duo 800 tank and get a Fluval 204 external filter kit. This should make things a lot easier when it comes to tank maintenance and more tank space for the livestock.

 

[Cheese Specialist]

I am sorry to hear about that,

I had 7 barbs in with baby angel fish for months and then I moved them all to a new and bigger tank along with 2 adult angels that came with it. The barbs had always been fine with my angels but they harrassed my black angel so much that I had to take the barbs out of the tank and put them with some corys. My black angel has some damage to his tail but he is acting fine, so I wouldn't imagine that your barbs caused the death of the angels.

I don't think I would have ever got barbs if I had have understood how aggressive they are. Oh well, I have them now and they are quite happy playfighting each other!!

 

[CFC]

CFC,

My mistake, when I referref to Altum Angel's I meant the standard looking variety, not veil-tail/marble/black etc. Mine were just the normal grey/silver body with vertical brown/black stripes. Cant remember the exact species name but all I do remember is they cost £15 each but I got them for £25 the pair.

That is exactly what altums should look like , marbled and veiltail etc are all selectively bred species and will normally do fine in tapwater. Altums are the angels the way they are meant to be without human intervention, if they were marked in the shop as altums then they would almost certainly be either wild caught or F1's (first generation). Before you purchase anymore be sure to check that the pH of the water they are being kept in is the same as the pH of the water in your tank, if posible try to match the hardness too. The local shop near me that stocks altums keep theirs at a pH of 6 .

 

[Changes-In-Latitude]

Sorry to hear about the loss David.
The angels you purchased were probably P.scalare

 

[David Rickard]

Cheers for the info CFC and thanks for the kind words Changes-In-Latitude.

The lfs that I refered to sells R/O water, would this be the answer to obtaining the right water chemistry before I purchase my replacement Angels???

My "significant other" really was taken by the Angels and I would really like to get things sorted and have 4 Angels in the tank before her birthday on 18th February .

Any helpful comments gratefully received

 

[sanj]

RO certainly will provide soft water minus anything good or bad. Many serious Discus owners consider it essential and considering true Altums are also very sensitive to water chemistry it might be a good idea.