Algae On Java Moss

[melh1979]

Hi I have an algae question if anyone can help please?

First some background info. We set up our first planted tank last weekend - it's 240 litres (63 US gallons) and will be an upgrade from our 70 litre (non-planted) tank. The lights are 1.3WPG and have been on for about 12 hours a day and there is no CO2 added. . I tested the water at the weekend and Ammonia was 0, Nitrite 0.25 and Nitrate 10. The pH is 8.0 (tap water 7.4), KH is 9, GH 16. Substrate is Tropica substrate with sand over the top and some gravel in places. It is planted with Hygrophila polysperma, Rotala rotundifolia, Hydrocotyle leucocephala, Bacopa, Cabomba, Cypts, Amazon Swords, Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae and Java Moss on the wood. There are no fish in the tank at present (just a few pesky snails which must have been on the swords ).

Yesterday I noticed something that looked like algae on top of the moss on the wood. It looks like netting draped over the top of it and is dark green. It comes away easily but it's tricky to get it off and not the moss! After doing some reading I thought it could be the dreaded Blue-Green Algae but it seems that that usually starts on the substrate and there is none on ours. Does it sound like that's what it could be or is there any other algae it sounds like? If it is BGA then it sounds like a blackout would be a plan but would this not also harm the plants? I realise photos would help but I'm at work at the moment - I can try to take some later if they'd be useful!

Thanks!

 

[SuperColey1]

The algae sounds like thread algae to me as this is very common on mosses etc.

There is no need for 12 hours light even with the low WPG you have. My plants tend to start closing up after 6-8 hours.

I run 0.6WPG for 3 hours then 2.5WPG for 6 hours then 0.6WPG for another 3 hours.

I would try and reduce your photoperiod to 8 or 10 hours.

Also is your tank cycling? What substrate do you have in there, How often are you water changing and how much, Do you have CO2, What is your plant density like?

In other words if you are running a tank that is cycling, are you adding ammonia? Is the substrate you are using a nutrient rich substrate and is it feeding too many nutrients for the amount of plants you have?

If you are looking to go the low light/No CO2 route then you should change water a lot less to keep the balance right, whereas a high light/CO2 injected tank requires more frequesnt water changes.

I still get this thread algae on my mosses sometimes and it is a bu**er to remove as it does pull moss with it.

Good Luck
Andy

 

[DevUK]

I've had bad thread algae problems. I've just managed to kill it all off by dosing Flourish Excel. This is a liquid that supplies carbon (instead of using CO2) and I'm dosing as part of my fertilizer routine. It has the happy side effect of killing off thread algae (but not other algae). Might be worth considering, but many on here will say "Prevention is the best cure". Whilst I totally agree, its not always possible

 

[melh1979]

Thanks so you think it sounds like it could be thread algae? I shall try and get a pic tonight.
The tank has about 1cm of Tropica Substrate but no other fertilisers have been added. We're not adding ammonia at the moment - we were thinking that as we have a tank already set up that we don't want to keep anymore we can just move the fish and the filter media over without too much of a problem.
I agree the lights have been on for too long - our fault as the timer is on the other tank so we have been turning the lights on before work and turning them off at night but we have been wanting to see the tank so have left them on longer than intended. We shall stop doing this!!!
It's hard for me to tell how heavily it is planted as I'm not sure what heavy is but I can post a pic later and see what you think. I don't think it looks that densly planted but the Hygrophilas have been growing a coulple of cm a day so we shall be pruning them and replanting some in the next day or so.
I shall have a look at the Flourish Excel too thanks.

 

[SuperColey1]

Heavily planted means that 75% or more of the substrate is planted. i.e. 75% of the sub-strate has plants 2 cm apart.

In other words look from above and if you see more than 25% of the substrate then you could do with more plants to soak up the nutrient that the algae is taking advantage of.

reducing the lighting period should help because if the plants do shut up after 6 hours as they have 'filled their boots', then the algae will be taking whats left (if anything)

If you watch the fish in the evenings try changing the photo period to be 4pm-12pm or something similar. Also make sure the tank is not in direct sunlight.

Andy

 

[melh1979]

Okay thanks - I'd say it's about 50%. It will be a bit more when we cut the Hygro back though. We probably need a bit more in the front as that is largely sand and a couple of E tenellus and some L novae-zelandiae which aren't doing so well and seem to have some other sort of algae on them at the moment - kind of a brown thready one.
Thanks for your help.

Just adding - do Ottos eat this algae. We have 4 of them in the other tank but we didn't want to add them till the water stats have sorted themselves out.

 

[SuperColey1]

You will get mixed responses on the wuestion of Otos.

The brown 'tumbleweed' type algae on the leaves 'should' be eaten by the Otos but I have found that mine don't really eat it!! Some of it but not all.

The Green thread algae, most people will say that they don't eat it, but I have found that if you pull the bulk of it out that the Ottos will eat the 'stubble' and eat some of the 'junior' crop .

Again, this type of algae grows too quickly IME for Otos to keep up with and they seem to ignore it once it has gone from stubble to actual threads.

Keep removing it by hand and let your fast growing plants grow into a jungle. It's better to let them outcompete the algae rather than wanting an immediately pretty tank.

All you need to do in these first stages are wait for the stem to be as tall as the water's surface, then cut off the top 6 inches and plant as seperate.

If you alway plant the cutting infront of the 'mother then you will get the bushy look and the 'unpretty' mother's bottom layers will be hidden by the 'pretty' cuttings that you have planted there.

Every time you do this and produce a lyer in front of the original you will be adding to you % planted. Once you have got a 'handle' on how to keep the algae at bay then you can start to replace these'ugly' plants with prettier varieties and species bit by bit until you get the look you are after.

Who said life was easy eh. lol

Andy

 

[garuf]

you say that your blue-green originates on moss? mine did too. A picture would be really helpful, also look for my thread on my blue-green trials if it looks similar to what was present on mine then it could well be blue-green and not thread. hope this helps

 

[melh1979]

Garuf - yes it looks like your pic on your thread. So a blackout is the way to go then. What did you cover yours with - a blanket or bin bags or something?
Someone posted that it can be due to low nitrates. At the moment there are no fish in there so once I add them there should be more nitrates right so hopefully it should help stop it coming back. Any other tips for stopping it or for the blackout? Thanks

 

[garuf]

Garuf - yes it looks like your pic on your thread. So a blackout is the way to go then. What did you cover yours with - a blanket or bin bags or something? Someone posted that it can be due to low nitrates. At the moment there are no fish in there so once I add them there should be more nitrates right so hopefully it should help stop it coming back. Any other tips for stopping it or for the blackout? Thanks

read this thread on another forum, its partially by the infamous Tom Barr who kills algae for a living, and yes apparently blue-green seems to be caused by low nutrients in particular co2 my attack of blue green was bought on by the fact I wasn't adding anything to the water column at all, no co2 no ferts only light after I did the black out (using a sleeping bag) I started adding co2 and ferts and since my plants have been extremely happy, and the only algal problem I have is thread algae blue green just doesn't get chance. http/www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/45...reen-algae.htmlalso may be useful ishttp/www.rexgrigg.com/Algae1.htmldo a 50% water change then once you start, forget you have a fish tank, that way you wont be tempted to peak under and look which will only mean you have to wait longer, once your done do a tidy up and change your water about 50%-70% then start to add ferts and co2, also if your not heavily planted try and get your hands on as many fast growing plants as possible

 

[DevUK]

I'm starting to rangle with BBA/Brush algae. I'm going to plant up a bit more heavily seeing as I probably have about 25% coverage with stem plants which, after reading today, is pitiful. More Polysperma required!!

 

[SuperColey1]

I'd love to look like the all knowledgable expert here but of course I follow Tom's advice too and apparently BBA is a prime example of CO2 not being high enough, although I would guess that is in a heavily planted tank and not 25%

Andy

 

[melh1979]

Thanks for the links and info - I have a bit of reading to do tonight!

Here are some pics sorry about the bluriness:

 

[garuf]

yeah that's most deffinatly blue green, its exactly the same stuff i had, the main things to do are run a black out, start adding co2 via diy or pressurised which ever you fancy and sorting out a ferts routine, i use EI because i understand its the most simple but their are alternatives.

 

[Rob.S]

yeah that's most deffinatly blue green, its exactly the same stuff i had,

Yep, I'll go along with that I'm in blackout at the moment.

I've always had problems with the stuff - no matter what setup I've used...... Plastic plants / no plants / rocks only / bogwood only / low light / more light / light siestas / Co2, EI (my current set up). It always comes back.

But, if we wanted to grow the stuff, it would be as elusive as the Loch Ness monster