Air bubbles or not?

[moonraker]

Good day, I am at phase two and a bit of fish keeping. Phase one: buy a tank that seems big, put all the wrong fish in it, realise the tank is actually small (19 uk gall), and that I need to sort out the fish. Phase two: buy a bigger tank (55 uk gal), promise the kids they can have the small tank once the fish are separated. Phase two and a bit: cycle (fishless) the new tank, get pestered on an hourly basis by the kids to move the fish. (I am at the nitrite spike stage after C.10 days).

Now, the question: My first tank has biolife filter with strong airation. The new tank has a Fluval 4+, submerged, strong current, no bubbles. I have read that oxygenation is actually achieved through serface area, not through bubbles. Is it desirable to add bubbles, or are they really for decorative effect? I want to get the equipment right at the start.

Thanks in advance, Kevin

 

[CFC]

As you have already found out bubbles are not nessasry in a modern aquarium as all the oxygen is provided by surface movement, in the old days before power filters the only way to provide any surface movement was to have a colomn of bubbles rising from the bottom and breaking on the surface but now the water is pushed around a circulated via the filter. Too much surface movement from air powered ornaments and bubble wands etc increases the chances of hair algea problems which are unsightly and difficult to get rid of so it is best to keep them to a minimum if you like them.

 

[moonraker]

Thank you for your explanation in the light of which I've turned off the bubbles in the 1st tank. Silence at last.............

Kevin

 

[njparton]

...Too much surface movement from air powered ornaments and bubble wands etc increases the chances of hair algea problems which are unsightly and difficult to get rid of so it is best to keep them to a minimum if you like them.

Why is that out of interest?

 

[jmelnek]

I have a 46 US gal. bowfront with an Emporer 400 power filter. I also have a 12" bubble bar underneith the gravel. Is this neccessary or can I do without? Is there a limit to bubbleless tank sizes? or does the quantity of fish matter as well.

 

[blue_ram]

I have a 46 US gal. bowfront with an Emporer 400 power filter. I also have a 12" bubble bar underneith the gravel. Is this neccessary or can I do without? Is there a limit to bubbleless tank sizes? or does the quantity of fish matter as well.

Air stones and wands are almost never necessary. I have a 10g planted tank that has no air stones, and no surface agitation of any kind. About 5 mos. out of the year, the water temperature hovers around 87 to 93 degrees. Yet I have never seen my fish gasping at the surface. Not even at night when the plants compete with the fish for oxygen. I've only seen my Otos and betta take an occasional gulp of air, but this is normal.

The point here is that for tropical fish, waste from an overcrowed tank will be the limiting factor rather than the oxygen shortage.

Air stone actually useful when you need a very gentle current... like when trying to hatch some eggs.

 

[CFC]

...Too much surface movement from air powered ornaments and bubble wands etc increases the chances of hair algea problems which are unsightly and difficult to get rid of so it is best to keep them to a minimum if you like them.

Why is that out of interest?

Excessive surface movement drives out co2 which will starve any live plants and prevent their growth which allows the algea to outcompete them, it also causes the water to be harder as it drives out the co2 which acidifies water creating ideal conditions for hair algea which thrives in hard alkeline water.
There are probably other reasons too but i have first hand experience of algea problems being conected to water turbulance, before i bought my largest tank my main tank was a juwel rio 300 which to acheive good oxygenation you needed to point the nozzle from the powerhead upwards due to bad design, this created terrible algea problems which i could not correct no matter how much i lowered nitrates and phosphates until i removed the internal filter and replaced it with a large external, as soon as i sorted out the water turbulance the algea was beaten.

 

[njparton]

...Too much surface movement from air powered ornaments and bubble wands etc increases the chances of hair algea problems which are unsightly and difficult to get rid of so it is best to keep them to a minimum if you like them.

Why is that out of interest?

Excessive surface movement drives out co2 which will starve any live plants and prevent their growth which allows the algea to outcompete them, it also causes the water to be harder as it drives out the co2 which acidifies water creating ideal conditions for hair algea which thrives in hard alkeline water.
There are probably other reasons too but i have first hand experience of algea problems being conected to water turbulance, before i bought my largest tank my main tank was a juwel rio 300 which to acheive good oxygenation you needed to point the nozzle from the powerhead upwards due to bad design, this created terrible algea problems which i could not correct no matter how much i lowered nitrates and phosphates until i removed the internal filter and replaced it with a large external, as soon as i sorted out the water turbulance the algea was beaten.

But I have soft, acidic water and tonnes of hair algea!

...and two very fat SAEs!

 

[baron von bubba]

...Too much surface movement from air powered ornaments and bubble wands etc increases the chances of hair algea problems which are unsightly and difficult to get rid of so it is best to keep them to a minimum if you like them.

Why is that out of interest?

Excessive surface movement drives out co2 which will starve any live plants and prevent their growth which allows the algea to outcompete them, it also causes the water to be harder as it drives out the co2 which acidifies water creating ideal conditions for hair algea which thrives in hard alkeline water.
There are probably other reasons too but i have first hand experience of algea problems being conected to water turbulance, before i bought my largest tank my main tank was a juwel rio 300 which to acheive good oxygenation you needed to point the nozzle from the powerhead upwards due to bad design, this created terrible algea problems which i could not correct no matter how much i lowered nitrates and phosphates until i removed the internal filter and replaced it with a large external, as soon as i sorted out the water turbulance the algea was beaten.

old thread i know but...........
yes while excessive surface movement will drive off co2, this ONLY applies in a tank with pressurized injection, in a low tech tank, water surface movement is positivly encouraged!
and lowering phosphates and nitrates will only make algae problems worse! trying to battle algae by lowering nutrients is exactly wrong thing to do. limiting the plants in any way gives algae the advantage and the plants will ALWAYS run out of nutrients before the algae does.

the reason the new filter helped with algae, was not because of the decreases surface agitation but in fact because of the increased flow in the tank.

 

[Fisses]

As you have already found out bubbles are not nessasry in a modern aquarium as all the oxygen is provided by surface movement, in the old days before power filters the only way to provide any surface movement was to have a colomn of bubbles rising from the bottom and breaking on the surface but now the water is pushed around a circulated via the filter. Too much surface movement from air powered ornaments and bubble wands etc increases the chances of hair algea problems which are unsightly and difficult to get rid of so it is best to keep them to a minimum if you like them.

Sorry to butt in, but in your reply you have put too much airation causes hair algae?

is this true as i have hair algae in my tank at the moment and im sick of it looking horrible!!