African Dwarf Frogs

[MtbGirl]

Hello all... I'm new here so I hope I'm posting this in the right place.

My husband & I just bought my son a 7-gallon tank and a few fish for his 8th birthday, which is tomorrow. We've had the tank over a week, and just added the fish yesterday: twelve little tetras, one algae eater and one small African dwarf frog.

Everything is going well, except we haven't seen the frog for over 24 hours now. There is a pirate ship in the tank with a little hole in it, we figured he was in there at first but then started to worry when he wasn't coming out.

I called Petsmart and they told us the frogs like to hide, and they are also nocturnal. They said Kermit (as my son has named him) is most likely hiding inside the ship, and comes out at night.

Is this information right?? They had the frogs mixed in with over fish out in the open at the store, but the girl said if they put rocks in the tank the frogs hide under the rocks. So we're wondering if we should get a rock-type formation that will allow Kermit to hide, but not so well that my son can't see him at all.

Doesn't he have to come out to breathe?? We figure he eats at night.

Also, if he is inside the ship, how do we coax him out so we know he's okay?? I'm tempted to raise the ship and check on him if I don't see him in a few days. We just tried turning off the light in the tank to see if he comes out.

Any information will be helpful... thanks.

 

[juicebox]

i don't know too much about african dwarf frogs, but i might be able to help a little. they are indeed nocturnal and are surface breathers.

african dwarf frogs are fairly good escape artists, too. your son's frog may have jumped out of the tank and you never knew it. try checking a good deal around the tank; keep in mind they can jump pretty far.

what kind of algae eater do you have?

 

[BiffMalawi]

Hi there:

I have had dwarf africans for years and currently have 4 in a10g. They do hide alot and are more active at night. They do occasionally make for the surface to breathe but don't seem to have to very often. I not sure I would call them surface breathers or I think we would see them more.

What are you feeding it?

The best food for them are frozen blood worms. I buy the ones in the little cube packs.
I cut a cube into at least four, you should try even smaller. I then defrost it in a little cup with tank water and add them late at night when feeding the fish. Your son could do it at bed time.

I feed it at the same time as flakes so the other fish are busy as anyone will eat the worms and they nedd to hit bottom.

I cut them up as frogs don't need many and blood worms make a real mess of the tank if uneaten.

I also only feed them every other day which is ok as I have seen them kinda scavenge for flakes in between.

They are very silly and I they have always been a great favourite of mine. Your son will love it.

 

[b.c.f.c]

id check in the ship for him as he may be just sitting in there or he may of got stuck
im sure he is ok as he is nocturnal and its not rare that you dont see them for days at a time

 

[MtbGirl]

He's fine!! Kermit's alive!!!

We raised the ship, and there he was underneath it. He didn't move much, and I was really worried. I put my hand in and touched him, he scooted away. He seems fine, he's swimming about. Somehow whenever we went into my son's room to check on Kermit we missed him going up for air or feeding.

I never thought I'd be so happy about seeing a frog!!!

Tomorrow I'm going to buy some type of rock formation that Kermit will be able to hide behind, but where we will also be able to see him and know he's okay.

Ohhh... I'm so relieved. Thank you, everyone, for all your help.

african dwarf frogs are fairly good escape artists, too. your son's frog may have jumped out of the tank and you never knew it. try checking a good deal around the tank; keep in mind they can jump pretty far.

what kind of algae eater do you have?

He is a Chinese Algae Eater... his name is Herbie.

Do you suggest using a screen to cover the tank?? We have a hood with cutouts for the filter and heater, is it possible for Kermit (or any of the fish, for that matter) to get out through those holes??

What are you feeding it?

I also only feed them every other day which is ok as I have seen them kinda scavenge for flakes in between.

They are very silly and I they have always been a great favourite of mine. Your son will love it.

We bought pellets, as per the pet store's recommendation. They told us Kermit will feed off the bottom, and suggested dropping the pellets every few days to make sure he's getting enough to eat.

My son adores Kermit, he loves frogs and was very happy to see him tonight.

 

[BiffMalawi]

You should be fine without the screen, the few holes you have don't pose a threat. I don't think Kermit could jump that high and most fish don't find any reason to try.

 

[MtbGirl]

During lunch today I went out and bought a couple of new rock formations with some coral on them. Checked them out, made sure Kermit could hide but not so well that we can't see him!!

Brought them home and put them in the tank, so far so good. When I left to go back to work, Kermit was already checking out the new decorations. I think he will be happy with them.

One problem: they are light, I had to push them down into the gravel to keep them from floating up. Has anyone had this problem with their decorations, and is there anything I can put inside to weigh them down?? I'm thinking they'll be okay, it's not like we're going to be sticking our hands in there dislodging them... and the fish seem to small to do that. So maybe it's not a problem.

 

[babybell911]

most ornaments are hollow so did you make sure it filled up with water when you put it in? I had to put mine in upside down to get all the air out and make it stay down x

 

[MtbGirl]

Aaahhh... I just tried making sure ALL of the air was out and it worked...


So now Kermit hides but we can still catch a glimpse of him to know he's okay. Besides, my son likes to see him every day!!

 

[MtbGirl]

Just thought I'd post an update... Kermit is doing great, today he was out swimming and floating a lot. We see much more of him now. Maybe he needed time to get comfortable?? We're just so happy to see him out and about.

My husband is now joining in on the spoiling of the pets... he bought some bloodworms to feed Kermit at night when the fishes are sleeping...

Here's a pic of Kermit I took today...

http/i84.photobucket.com/albums/k16/PanClan06/IMG_0977.jpg


And a pic of our algae eater, Herbie...

http/i84.photobucket.com/albums/k16/PanClan06/IMG_0979.jpg

 

[MtbGirl]

Well, it appears I posted too soon... yesterday we all came home to find Kermit resting near one of the rocks at the bottom of the tank. Didn't think anything of it. However, he didn't move from that spot all night. OK, guess he's just relaxing... they do that. Still, I didn't have a good feeling.

After my son went to sleep, I shined a flashlight in the tank to check on Kermit again. I caught what appeared to be one of the tetras picking at him. My husband came in and we lifted the hood, I tried to touch Kermit with the handle of the scooping net, he didn't budge. I moved the rock away from him... again, he didn't move.

My husband reached in with the net and scooped him out, he was definitely a goner. We made absolutely sure he was dead before flushing him. I was so upset thinking about how upset my son was going to be when we told him in the morning. I wanted to go to the pet store right then and there to buy another frog!!!

This morning my son took the news better than we anticipated. He was visibly upset and cried a little, but we assured him he took good care of Kermit and we didn't know why Kermit died. Tonight we will take a sample of the water to Petsmart and have it tested, just to make sure it's okay. If all is okay, we'll buy another frog. We told my son he could even name the frog "Kermit II" if he wanted.

I hope it wasn't anything we did wrong. We gave him pellets and dried bloodworms every 2-3 days, the water temp was always around 79-80 degrees... hopefully the next frog will last longer.

 

[Mikaila31]

Sadly it sound like you tank was never cycled and it is way overstocked. You can read about cycling here. As for being overstocked the rule of thum is 1" of fish per gallon. Your neons and black neons get 1.5" each, the glolights get 2" each, and the chinese alge eater gets 5-6". The chinese alge eater also will get very agressive as it gets bigger and they are known to suck on the sides of fish. I would do a 25% water change and see if pet smart could take all the fish back as most would died during the cycling process. You could also do a fishless cycle which would be my approch. Which will save your cycling fish from death, and fishless cycling can also be quicker.

Hope that helps a little

 

[MtbGirl]

Thanks... unfortunately Petsmart never told us about cycling, only about having the tank set up at least 48 hours before putting any fish in it. They also said putting all those little tetras in a 7 gallon tank with the frog and the algae eater would be fine. Lately I have also been wondering if we have too many fish in one tank.

I'm seriously debating on whether or not we should just keep some frogs in the tank instead of fish, as my son seems to enjoy those more.

Petsmart has a two-week guarantee on the fish, maybe we could do some sort of exchange.

I feel really bad that we may have killed poor little Kermit due to lack of knowledge... ...but I suppose it has happened to everyone at one time or another.

Can anyone give me any advice on how many ADFs to keep in a 7-gallon, and whether or not it would be okay to keep Herbie, the algae eater?? Also, would cycling apply with frogs as well??

Any info would be helpful... thanks.

 

[wodesorel]

Petsmart should take the fish back, expecially if you call first and give the manager what-for for not being told the correct information. I have a feeling it happens all the time.

I'm just worried what kind of algea eater they sold you. If it's a Siamese algea eater it'll kill the frogs as it grows older, and if it's a pleco it'll grow to two feet long - no kidding. Do you know the name of it from the store, or can give a description or look online for pictures to tell you what it is?

I'm pretty sure frogs only need a gallon a piece. They're pretty easy to keep from what I understand, and mine really enjoys having lots of plants to hide in. (He's in a seven gallon with a male betta, a bamboo shrimp, ghost shrimp, and three snails that are in quarenteen from the main snail tank - it's a little over stocked, but it's fully cycled and I do water changes every three days.) A frog only tank will also keep them from being beat up on, and they'll definately get food that way!

If you're going to cycle the tank fishless, there's links around here somewhere on how to do it. If you're going to do it with a frog, you'll need a good test kit and will have to test and probably do water changes every day. They're very sensitive to ammonia and nitrate and probably wouldn't make it through the cycling process.

 

[MtbGirl]

Well, I just came back from having the water tested, I watched the guy do it and he said it was fine. However, he also said 12 tetras in a 7-gallon won't last long unless the water is changed regularly, and most likely the ammonia level was too high for poor Kermit.

He said they will definitely take the fish back in exchange for frogs, he suggested changing the water before adding frogs. He said for now we should leave Herbie (the algae eater) in there for a bit and see how he does in the water, if all goes well we could add one frog at a time.

He also said eventually we should separate Herbie as he gets bigger, not because he'll hurt the frogs but he'll raise the ammonia levels higher. He said the pet store would gladly take the bigger algae eater in exchange for a smaller one, I guess we'll see when the time comes.

The guy suggested 4-5 frogs in a 7-gallon, and if we were to keep the fish instead of getting frogs we would get a refund for Kermit.

My son has a week to make his decision... I have a feeling he will go with the frogs, he loves them so.

This is the Chinese algae eater we have, I took the pic myself. Let me know if you need a better pic...

http/i84.photobucket.com/albums/k16/PanClan06/IMG_0979.jpg