African aqua scape... can it really be done?

[Oddball59]

Kia Ora, Hi, I came across this guy who has filmed many parts of the African and South American waterways and ponds.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mikolji

I realised how often aquascapes are wrongly showing environments. Many, maybe most are dirty, full of floating particles, very low light and vision. I think it can be done but these areas aqua topes are often barren, lots of dead wood, sand, boulders. beautiful fish, maybe fast flowing waters to replicate, and a very dirtied environment. I found his underwater film collection from his expeditions fascinating. I think it's well worth a look.

It's given me ideas and I've finally decided to ty to make an aqua tope from some of his underwater films. So'm starting to compile a list now of plants, and gather boulders, and wood. I'm sort of already stuck as I want a couple of very large pieces of wood, logs if you will. Any suggestions of suppliers would be gratefully appreciated.
What do people think of the murky appearance and how to maintain it in a tank, as soon as you run a filter the floating detritus that always present and catches in some of the greenery, which can be very sparse as well. It may need maybe three power heads to give the flow. and an air bar to give that turbulence too. I'm not sure about Co2?

has anyone done something like this before... I've searched the archives and can't find anything with this very worn, million year old look.
But... you can add some beautiful fish and give good habitats with leaves and husks etc...

Is it beyond us? can it look attractive? Thank you.
Wasn't sure where to post this so apologise if it's in the wrong section... maybe the mods will transfer it if they feel there is somewhere more appropriate.

When I start i'l make regular photo updates and add them. Until I saw this guys aqua tope I didn't realise this was a possibility.

 

[Wills]

I think what you are looking for is a blackwater biotope style tank, having detritus in the water as you describe isnt super possible but is it as natural as it seems in those videos? Remember Ivan Mikolji is swimming through the water, disturbing the substrate as he moves and also as he entered the water. A good blackwater set up is achievable though with lots of botanical elements from places like blackwateruk.com or riverwoodaquatics.co.uk. - loads of seed pods, husks, leaves etc and you could look to a brand called Wio for the substrate system, they do these kits called biotope beds which are designed to fit with their wood and rocks so everything ties in and looks natural - they are sold in 2 and 5kg bags that are a mixture of sand and a variety of elements such as leaves, twigs, shells, pebbles etc.

For big pieces of wood that are aquarium safe - if you want to scavenge try and find oak branches that have been dried out or seasoned or if you get to Horizon Aquatics they have some really big bits of wood all different kinds, variety of prices but you can get pretty big pieces for £50.

This website might be a good starting point to see how other people do biotope tanks - https://biotopeaquariumproject.com/bac2022-results/ if you scroll down the page you will see the different regions and how they are judged. I always find it more impressive when someone recreates somewhere else in the world rather than part of their home town... but at least they are judged separately.

Wills

 

[Oddball59]

I think what you are looking for is a blackwater biotope style tank, having detritus in the water as you describe isnt super possible but is it as natural as it seems in those videos? Remember Ivan Mikolji is swimming through the water, disturbing the substrate as he moves and also as he entered the water. A good blackwater set up is achievable though with lots of botanical elements from places like blackwateruk.com or riverwoodaquatics.co.uk. - loads of seed pods, husks, leaves etc and you could look to a brand called Wio for the substrate system, they do these kits called biotope beds which are designed to fit with their wood and rocks so everything ties in and looks natural - they are sold in 2 and 5kg bags that are a mixture of sand and a variety of elements such as leaves, twigs, shells, pebbles etc.

For big pieces of wood that are aquarium safe - if you want to scavenge try and find oak branches that have been dried out or seasoned or if you get to Horizon Aquatics they have some really big bits of wood all different kinds, variety of prices but you can get pretty big pieces for £50.

This website might be a good starting point to see how other people do biotope tanks - https://biotopeaquariumproject.com/bac2022-results/ if you scroll down the page you will see the different regions and how they are judged. I always find it more impressive when someone recreates somewhere else in the world rather than part of their home town... but at least they are judged separately.

Wills

Kia Ora, Thanks Wills... quick reply I think most of the detritus is free floating and while he's probably staring some up, it appears a natural phenomenon. I'm going to Horizon in a couple of weeks to pick up a Co2Art regulator and whatever takes my fancy... I'll definitely check out those packs.
What struck me was the water just looked very dirty.... not really "black" water s we'd picture it with lots of tannins, but maybe thats a compromise I'll have to make, which I don't really want to do, there's lots of black water aquariums, but none like this that I've seen. The aqua scape is so chaotic... I love it. I'm working through his underwater videos looking for plants in the environment. the fish aren't a problem.
So many to choose from.
I know I'll need lots of water flow, and I'm excited by the idea of the flow arranging the tank naturally? You mentioned you liked the Hygger heads? I might need three! and a air bar thingy.
Scavenging's a good idea, but I struggle to tell a daisy from a cactus lol. But maybe Horizon will have something authentic to Africa.
Guess I'll send off my credit card to be titanium reinforced haha.
As ever it's always great to hear from you, you always give good advice. Take care Wills.

Kia Kaha. Phil.

BTW... how's the twin island coming along? I was having another look at it, it's a classic "V" shape at the moment. have you considered moving one forward and one back? Not teaching you to suck eggs, but I thought that would give depth and maintain the golden triangle and the height is great if you aspire to the rule of thirds. You've still got a lot of empty water to fill, looking forward to your ongoing creation, I'm sure it's going to be great.

 

[Wills]

Just good timing

I see what you mean its almost like a suspended algae - it might also just be to do with the depth of water we are looking through that can be very hard to replicate in an aquarium. I'd definitely go prepared when you go to Horizon, I've been once with a budget in mind and ended up leaving empty handed because it was going to be double what I wanted... but that was my expectations in fairness.

Just one thing to mention though - as you are drifting more to a biotope set up rather than the Amano inspired tanks. You might not need that regulator - the Co2 is only there to help plants grow under the high lights that some of them need, in Co2 high tech tanks fish need to be considered very carefully and often only a small school of one species is added to compliment the planted scape. Now you are thinking of recreating habitats but not mentioning actual fish and numbers and I think you should spend some time considering that bit of the tank before you decide what you want to get.

The Hygger power head might be a good one for you as it is variable so the flow is not constant 24 hours so you could turn it right up at some points to get the kind of turbulance you want.

My tank is still dry! I got all the bits for my filter but they didn't come with the suction cups... so I've had to pay out for a pack of them. Hopefully this bank holiday weekend will get it full, the main structure is pretty set now the fish will add a lot to this tank and I want the upper levels clear for my Acei which are a more open water swimmer (theoretically) and also I'll have many plant roots into the water in that space too - though I may need to contain these in someway, which long term... may be a silicone 3D background from Aquadecor or the like.

 

[Oddball59]

Just good timing

I see what you mean its almost like a suspended algae - it might also just be to do with the depth of water we are looking through that can be very hard to replicate in an aquarium. I'd definitely go prepared when you go to Horizon, I've been once with a budget in mind and ended up leaving empty handed because it was going to be double what I wanted... but that was my expectations in fairness.

Just one thing to mention though - as you are drifting more to a biotope set up rather than the Amano inspired tanks. You might not need that regulator - the Co2 is only there to help plants grow under the high lights that some of them need, in Co2 high tech tanks fish need to be considered very carefully and often only a small school of one species is added to compliment the planted scape. Now you are thinking of recreating habitats but not mentioning actual fish and numbers and I think you should spend some time considering that bit of the tank before you decide what you want to get.

The Hygger power head might be a good one for you as it is variable so the flow is not constant 24 hours so you could turn it right up at some points to get the kind of turbulance you want.

My tank is still dry! I got all the bits for my filter but they didn't come with the suction cups... so I've had to pay out for a pack of them. Hopefully this bank holiday weekend will get it full, the main structure is pretty set now the fish will add a lot to this tank and I want the upper levels clear for my Acei which are a more open water swimmer (theoretically) and also I'll have many plant roots into the water in that space too - though I may need to contain these in someway, which long term... may be a silicone 3D background from Aquadecor or the like.

Sounds great Wills. I don't know if I'm aiming at a tannin tank so much as one that reflects a murky knocked about sub scape. But I might well end ups with Tannins. One question I have that I haven't had a sensible answer to yet is ... if you set up a bioscope with tannin, how do you maintain the tannin levels, without tossing in more and more leaves and detritus? With the filter running and water changes your bound to lose the tannin effect, what's your thoughts on that mate?

As for Co2 I had an offer I couldn't refuse... 6 x 2Ltr bottles (Extinguishers) full for fifty quid. So I thought why not, even if I don't need them now I think I will at some stage. The guy can also get them filled on the QT ;-).... but thats loads anyway. It's cheaper, even if I had to toss them when they are empty than going to the gas companies and renting/buying a bottle, then been locked in their money making cycle.

Fish wise there's loads isn't there, as a start in'm looking at a good shoaling fish midwater, Rams and some sort of catfish for the bottom, and then something for the top, maybe something in there that breeds, but certainly not overstocked, I'd sooner spend my time enjoying a few species that are hopefully a little unusual than be chasing dozens of fish around the tank, all intermingled and their shoaling capacities gone because there's too many other fish fighting for space. I can happily sit and watch a couple of fish for hours in the right environment. It's so hard isn't it? Ooooh I like that and those and them..... Restraint and research, everything has to play well, look beautiful yet natural and be interesting to watch. Better than Netflix.

You are obviously keen on those backgrounds, and I'm not against artificial objects to achieve a goal, I mean everyone runs around with superglue lol.
In fact I've got some of those green foam blocks from a florist they have soaked and keep plants in, they can be cut to any shape and I've got fine foam filter sheets to lay over them, as I think they will build up a side higher and then add substrate over them. Probably useful to create a few things, raised areas to give flow and depth etc... Might work I think they will inherently float so I'll have to be sure and then stick them down, then provide a less angular slope with the filter mat and substrate over that.

I was looking at Horizon and Green Aqua, a site I love, although they have limitless resources they have great presentations, creations, guests and aquascapes... and I noticed the ADA equipment, the Takashi Amano branded stuff... £140 for some planting tweezers 0-)... "F" me. I definitely won't be buying those, works of precise art they may be, but my old ones are still going good.

BTW I never told you how I'm financing this? I didn't smoke for fourteen years, and after I lost my beautiful boy to cancer aged 18yrs... he was on his way to Oxford to study medical research... I hit the bottle a bit and drank with his friends... my son had asked them to look after me "if it went bad"... and they did and do, but drinking, depressed feeling lost I asked for a cigarette one night after 14 yrs and then another and so on, So about four months ago I just thought this is stupid and stopped, I have kept track on what I have saved stopping smoking and its already £1600!!!! And the motivational goal I set myself was this tank!

The hardscape and substrate will be going on the filter foam sheets, very fine pores, to protect the glass and help shape the substrate and tank in general. It's all coming together on my iPad. I'm getting my floor strengthened this week then the tank will go in. Four foot by 15" by 15".

The excitement mounts, but I enjoy the research and planning a great deal too. There are so many ideas I'd like to follow... except Dutch! But honestly... I want a habitat not a system.... although you can have both.
Great to hear from you again Wills. take care. Kia Kaha. Phil.

p.s thanks for that link, it's a very impressive site. Looking now. Yes "Darkwater".

 

[Byron]

I would rethink some of this. First off, if you intend having cloudy/hazy water, you do not want CO2 because the plants will not get sufficient light to do well enough to need it. And CO2 is believed to be negative on fish, not surprising. The light has to be very dim, and plants will struggle. Having floating plants only helps create the habitat you are describing, because the floaters shade the lower aquarium for the fish, but still provide their benefit re the water quality.

There is a big difference between blackwater and cloudy water from suspended particulate matter. Blackwater streams for the most part are crystal clear. The water is the colour of strong tea, but not in the least cloudy or hazy.

Most aquarists do all they can to prevent cloudy water. It does no harm to the fish, obviously, but it does not look all that appealing.

 

[Wills]

Byron has put my point much more succinctly than I could green/blackwater tanks make the Co2 pointless so you really need to choose which route you want to go down.

Similarly when you are talking about high-flow tanks, the fish you mentioned are not great in those high-flow settings. But there are plenty of high flow species in our hobby - with your African lake slant the block head cichlids come to mind. Not everyones cup of tea but it is for some...

With the florist foam you mentioned - I've not heard of this being used in aquariums before? Are you sure this is fish safe? For making structures you might be surprised how quickly hardscape fills out space and also the space plants take up in a mature tank - though you might not want the dutch style you'd be surprised how soon a good area of growth can fill in and once it does you can shape it to make the contours you want in there naturally - especially something dense growing like Rotala.

Wills

 

[Oddball59]

I would rethink some of this. First off, if you intend having cloudy/hazy water, you do not want CO2 because the plants will not get sufficient light to do well enough to need it. And CO2 is believed to be negative on fish, not surprising. The light has to be very dim, and plants will struggle. Having floating plants only helps create the habitat you are describing, because the floaters shade the lower aquarium for the fish, but still provide their benefit re the water quality.

There is a big difference between blackwater and cloudy water from suspended particulate matter. Blackwater streams for the most part are crystal clear. The water is the colour of strong tea, but not in the least cloudy or hazy.

Most aquarists do all they can to prevent cloudy water. It does no harm to the fish, obviously, but it does not look all that appealing.

Kia Ora, Thanks Byron. I think you're right, good advice. I didn't see how I could have a naturally cloudy habitat as the filter would probably end up cleaning everything up anyway. Yes I knew about the tannins in blackwater, but I wake up in the morning with a different idea lol.

 

[Oddball59]

Byron has put my point much more succinctly than I could green/blackwater tanks make the Co2 pointless so you really need to choose which route you want to go down.

Similarly when you are talking about high-flow tanks, the fish you mentioned are not great in those high-flow settings. But there are plenty of high flow species in our hobby - with your African lake slant the block head cichlids come to mind. Not everyones cup of tea but it is for some...

With the florist foam you mentioned - I've not heard of this being used in aquariums before? Are you sure this is fish safe? For making structures you might be surprised how quickly hardscape fills out space and also the space plants take up in a mature tank - though you might not want the dutch style you'd be surprised how soon a good area of growth can fill in and once it does you can shape it to make the contours you want in there naturally - especially something dense growing like Rotala.

Wills

Kia Ora Wills, Yes I have thought about the florist foam... I'm not sure and need more research. Maybe I need a rethink... yes another one. Thank you so much for your advice. I've a while yet before I need a final decision I guess I'm tossing ideas around but I will have to make a decision soon. Or not. Thanks for your advice Wills. I will get there eventually, you guys are certainly helping a lot and I am grateful.

 

[madmark285]

For foam, you can just buy a can of the Great Stuff insulation foam and make your own. I would use care with the florist foam, does it get saturated with water? You don't want that.

For hardscape, I found this along a trail behind my house:

It is some kind of shrub which died long ago. What you need to look for, wood which has limited or no contact with the ground ie: just exposed to the air. I found a whole bunch of these, this was my 75 gallon at startup:

This tank developed a leak and was broken down. I am converting it to a Mbuna tank.

 

[Oddball59]

For foam, you can just buy a can of the Great Stuff insulation foam and make your own. I would use care with the florist foam, does it get saturated with water? You don't want that.

For hardscape, I found this along a trail behind my house:
View attachment 325433
It is some kind of shrub which died long ago. What you need to look for, wood which has limited or no contact with the ground ie: just exposed to the air. I found a whole bunch of these, this was my 75 gallon at startup:

View attachment 325434

This tank developed a leak and was broken down. I am converting it to a Mbuna tank.

Kia Ora, Wow thats brilliant, a lovely piece of wood. I'd throw a party if I could find something like this. We don't have many opportunities here in the urban sprawl but maybe driftwood after a drive to the beach, or a couple of small wooded areas I could look at. The aqua scape is lovely by the way, great photo. What will you do with the background? Paint it, put plastic on it, I saw a great video where a guy took a piece of 4mm ply and three rattle cans and sprayed the wood to match the lovely aqua scape like you've created.

 

[madmark285]

Kia Ora, Wow thats brilliant, a lovely piece of wood. I'd throw a party if I could find something like this. We don't have many opportunities here in the urban sprawl but maybe driftwood after a drive to the beach, or a couple of small wooded areas I could look at. The aqua scape is lovely by the way, great photo. What will you do with the background? Paint it, put plastic on it, I saw a great video where a guy took a piece of 4mm ply and three rattle cans and sprayed the wood to match the lovely aqua scape like you've created.

Thank you. I hate to break this to ya but the above 75 gallon tank started to leak and had to be broken down. After resealing the tank, it will be converted to a Mbuna tank ie: lots of rocks. One issue I did have with the wood pieces, they turned an ugly brown and could not be removed for a cleanly. Mistakes I made on this setup, I should have dry started the tank and covered the wood pieces with Java ferns.

The single wood piece is going in the 40 gallon tank you see in the background. I am going to mount it using magnetics to hold it down as it becomes waterlogged. I also going to spray paint it with Fusion clean paint to keep the wood looking better. The barbs in the 29 gallon tank will go in the 40 gallon, may use that tank to dry start java ferns on the wood.

For backgrounds, I just paint it black.

Just go on some hike thru parks looking for wood pieces. Once you understand what you are looking for, you may be surprises on what you can find.

 

[GaryE]

I just returned from Gabon, where I visited close to 20 habitats. Two were murky. One was destroyed by gold miners. All of the rest had very clear water, and only showed sediment when we went in fishing and filming. They had soft mud bottoms in most cases, so one footstep changed everything.

It was dry season, and one habitat was a pool cut off from the main stream by drying. It was murky, but also very short of fish life. Most of the aquarium fish we like were in dark water with almost no aquatic plants, but with terrestrial plants drooping into the water. The tiny fish were under that cover, in most cases. But it was clear water, and light was only a few cm away.

We found Aphyosemion cameronense, Enteromius jae and Parananochromis gabonicus in a sunless stream in heavier forest, but that was the darkest biotope we were in. So I'm not sure murky water would be appropriate. A bottom with debris that could be stirred up - yes. But in water tests, most habitats were at the maximum for clarity.

 

[Oddball59]

Thank you. I hate to break this to ya but the above 75 gallon tank started to leak and had to be broken down. After resealing the tank, it will be converted to a Mbuna tank ie: lots of rocks. One issue I did have with the wood pieces, they turned an ugly brown and could not be removed for a cleanly. Mistakes I made on this setup, I should have dry started the tank and covered the wood pieces with Java ferns.

The single wood piece is going in the 40 gallon tank you see in the background. I am going to mount it using magnetics to hold it down as it becomes waterlogged. I also going to spray paint it with Fusion clean paint to keep the wood looking better. The barbs in the 29 gallon tank will go in the 40 gallon, may use that tank to dry start java ferns on the wood.

For backgrounds, I just paint it black.

Just go on some hike thru parks looking for wood pieces. Once you understand what you are looking for, you may be surprises on what you can find.

Kia Ora, sorry about the tank... . The magnets idea is certainly one I've not heard of outside mounting hardware or tools, powerheads, scarpers etc... Will you stick the magnet base to the inside of the tank, What do you think caused the ugly brown look? Did it leach into the water? I've never heard of using paint on the hardscape before either, I'd love to see how it comes out can you tag me when you've got your look? All the best Mark, Kia Kaha. Phil.