Advice

AquaDreams

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I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on as to wether or not it is wise to put my female betta with two common goldfish...? Should I or should I not? If not please state why and the risks.
Thanks! :p
 
I agree with kilultagh, they both need completely different temperatures so it would be best keeping them seperate. Also Bettas prefer to have still water in the tanks and as far as I know goldfish prefer flowing water.
 
I know I'm going to get my head chewed off, but I don't really care.

I have had my goldfish (don't remember for sure what kind, but it starts with an R) for almost two years. The kind of goldfish that it is, is suggested to be kept in waters between 68°F and 78°F. I keep him in a 10 gallon at 77°. I have a female betta in with him. They have been in there together for about 7 months now. Neither one bothers the other. They both are active and thriving.

So, depending on the type of goldfish (common goldfish do prefer lower temps than my goldfish) it is very possible to keep them together.

I don't however suggest putting a male with goldfish. That same goldfish I have with the female ate one of my male bettas about a year and a half ago. They were in the tank together for two weeks and one day I came home to find my once teal and red betta white as a ghost and floating vertical in the tank with all of his fins thrashed.
 
Yes goldfish (including the fancies) will eat other smaller fish. Also goldfish dietary requirements are different than a Betta's. Betta food is way too rich for goldie.

Common goldies are very rough and will even harm without intention fancy goldfish by joustling them and damaging their swimbladder.

IMO, goldies are not even close to appropriate mates for a Betta.

fuman_chica: I am sorry if you have been getting your head chewed off. That is totally not appropriate. We all learn by our own and others' experiences. Although I wouldn't keep a Betta with a goldie of any species, I am glad to learn from your experiences. :lol: The goldie you have might be a ryukin or a ryukin mix.

goldie types
 
Yes goldfish (including the fancies) will eat other smaller fish. Also goldfish dietary requirements are different than a Betta's. Betta food is way too rich for goldie.

Common goldies are very rough and will even harm without intention fancy goldfish by joustling them and damaging their swimbladder.

IMO, goldies are not even close to appropriate mates for a Betta.

fuman_chica: I am sorry if you have been getting your head chewed off. That is totally not appropriate. We all learn by our own and others' experiences. Although I wouldn't keep a Betta with a goldie of any species, I am glad to learn from your experiences. :lol: The goldie you have might be a ryukin or a ryukin mix.

goldie types

Oh sue I wanted to be clever and say ryukin but you got in first. :unsure: Goldfish are mucky little devils unlike my bettas who are very houseproud.!
 
fuman_chica: I am sorry if you have been getting your head chewed off. That is totally not appropriate. We all learn by our own and others' experiences. Although I wouldn't keep a Betta with a goldie of any species, I am glad to learn from your experiences. :lol: The goldie you have might be a ryukin or a ryukin mix.

goldie types
It's quite alright. I've grown used to it here. Nearly everytime I state my opinion that is different than others, they repremand me for my opinion. With over 7 months of experience in this subject, I thought I should put my input in even if anyone decided they needed to snap at me.

And I actually checked that exact thread you posted right after I had posted my reply on here. I was going to check what it was called. But actually, my goldfish doesn't really look 100% like any of those. This is mine, if you are curious. He is about the size of one of those large (REALLY large) jawbreakers. He would probably fit in my hands if I cupped them.

And like I said, I've had him for nearly two years (two years in February) and he has been in with my female betta for at least 7 months. They don't even really care about the other. The goldfish doesn't eat the betta's food becasue my betta is trained that when I open the lid, she goes to the top to be fed. She eats the food one at a time. So I never worry about the goldfish getting it. But the betta does eat some of the goldfish's flakes sometimes.
 
Please note: this post is not targetted at anyone and has the interests of the fish at heart.

I just want to clear up some misconceptions about keeping goldfish and bettas together, because it is unacceptable and involves compromising the ideal conditons for both fish. I might offend some people with this post, but no serious goldfish keeper mixes these two species, or ever mixes tropical with coldwater. Here are some good reasons to never, ever, ever place the two together, even if it does work out for a while. Like most aspects of fish keeping, something that works temporarily does not tend to work long term when mixing incompatible species.

- Goldfish are a social species and require the company of their own species in the long run. Other species of fish make poor replacements, and over time, neurotic stereotypical behaviors may be observed.
- Bettas are a solitary species that tend to be stressed by the presence of other fish. They may act aggressively, or may patroll and defend an area of the tank against tankmates to the point of physical exhaustion.

- Goldfish have a notoriously high waste output and parasite load. Most tropical fish can not remain healthy in the amount of waste goldfish produce, and are sensitive to parasites that goldfish carry but are not seriously affected by. Bettas, with their long fins, are very sensitive to water quality, making goldfish and exceptionally poor choice for a tank mate.

- Goldfish are active fish that require water with high aeration, a fast current, plenty of open swimming space, and cool temperatures. They also prefer a higher pH and hardness.
- Bettas do best in low/no current, low aeration water conditions, high temperatures, and require plenty of hiding and "perching" spaces to feel secure. They prefer an acidic pH and minimal hardness.

- Fancy goldfish need a MINIMUM of 20g to survive to maturity - think 20 YEAR lifespan at 8+ inches in length regardless of the type! Common goldfish can grow to 24" when properly cared for, and can not be kept in anything but a pond at maturity. Remember, inch per gallon does not apply to goldfish because of their waste output; they need anywhere from 3-5x's the gallons per inch of a tropical fish.
- Bettas are most comfortable in tanks 10g and under due to their territorial drive to patrol and may become stressed or exhausted trying to swim in larger tanks, especially if the presence of other tankmates inspires them to patrol.

- Goldfish get huge and eat anything that fits in their mouth.
- Bettas are one of those things that fit in a large goldfish's mouth.

- Goldfish are omnivores require a diet of fresh leafy greens and veggies, small amounts of fruit, and a high quality pellet (not flakes; flakes can cause impaction and SBD and should especially never be fed to fancies). They are food hogs and will happily chase away or injure fish who come between them and their food.
- Bettas are carnivores and require a diet of high quality pellet (for carnivores, not goldfish!), hopefully with some frozen or live foods to promote good health. But goldfish will happily eat a betta's food and prevent them from eating.

- Goldfish are known to be fin nippers as they'll try to eat whatever they can get their mouth on. Commons especially are fast moving and can easily outswim and chomp on a VT.
- Bettas are also known to be aggressive and can injure or kill smaller fancy goldfish since these species are notoriously poor swimmers.

I could go on forever with this, but hopefully you get the idea. There is no good reason or justification to mix a large, social, high current, high aeration, coldwater omnivore with a small, territorial, aggressive, low current, low aeration, tropical carnivore! Goldfish belong with goldfish, bettas belong alone or with suitable tank mates, and coldwater never belongs with tropical.
 
I think that RW is correct, and to be totally honest I would not keep a common goldie with even a fancy as they are too rough. Although I believe several more experienced goldie hobbyists do.

When I got my vt oranda she had just been moved out of a guppy tank where she had been happily munching the guppies.

Many of the fancies in the pet stores are mixes of varieties and so it is hard to give exact IDs.

Remember that even if your goldie and Betta turn out to be an exception, the general rules still hold true and the advice given should encourage the fish keeper to start by staying inside the accepted practices. As the fish keeper gains experience they may experiment. Myself, I have lost many fish by not following the advice of experienced keepers. I also many times said, "Well it has worked for me the last such and such many months." Later I had tragedies and losses. I am such a hardheaded know it all sometimes! :blush: In this case we are also apparantly comparing a fancy goldie and a common goldie.

Most of the rude hollering, imo, comes from the immature. But let me add that I am totally impressed with the maturity of some of our younger members and have occasionally been dismayed at the bullying and rudeness of some quite older members. And I for one welcome your post, fuman. I think it is good to add your experiences, but they may not always be appropriate to the situation.
 
You are correct, JollySue, about keeping commons and fancies seperate. As they grow, commons will become faster and more aggressive than fancies, and are known for hurting fancies and their allready delicate swim bladders. Plus, most fancies do not tollerate outdoor ponds and have a smaller comfort range temperature-wise than commons, so a properly kept mature common would never be kept with a fancy by someone keeping goldfish responsibly.

And Fuman, even though I do not agree with how you are keeping your goldie and betta, I really respect you both for speaking of your experience, and for having the nerve to come on and post about it even though there was a strong chance of getting railed by someone. I hope my post wasn't horribly offensive to you; the only person it was directed to was the origional poster asking the question. :good:
 
Well, in MY experience, with my two fish, things are working well. I do keep an eye on them to make sure that they aren't fighting or getting irritated with each other. And if a problem ever arises, I already have an empty 1.5 gallon for the female betta. However, I have seen no signs of aggression from either one of them. The only time the goldfish was ever agressive was when I had the MALE betta in with it. And he didn't like him I guess... I will never put a male betta in with him again. And I would suggest others don't put males in with them as well.

As for alot of the stuff you posted about the goldfish vs. bettas, not all of that applies to all goldfish. So I understand it wasn't directed at me. I did review the information on this forum about the water conditions to keep my goldfish in. It doesn't conflect with the conditions necessary for the betta. And seeing as I change out 50% of the water everytime I vaccum out the gravel, I don't see a problem in the goldfish producing a lot of waste.

And as I said, I keep a close eye on them. I look in several times a day not only paying attention to the where abouts they are in the tank, but also their behavior, coloring, activity level, etc. They have not changed once since before I put them together. Except the goldfish misses his pleco buddy.
 

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