Advice Re Other Fish Compatibility

[Mamba]

Hi Folks,

Just looking to pick your brains. I will have either a 24"x12"x15" or 36"x12"x15" (fully cycled available soon and was looking at getting a Betta too but would not want to have just one fish in the tank. I like Community based set ups but know that betta's like little current and don't get on too well with an awful lot of other fish.

I was thinking of a L134 Leopard frog Pleco and a candy Striped Pleco or some Sterbai Corydoras for the bottom of the tank. But not too sure about the mid to top. Was wondering about either a Blue Gourami or Killifish? Will Golden Panchax make a quick snack of the Betta? Would Praecox rainbows be out of the question?

I read on a previous post about female Splendens could be kept in groups and if the right species are bought then they'd look as good as the males. Which species should I look up.

Still just at the ideas stage at the moment so want to get the info before making daft mistakes. Cheers.

 

[Flute]

I'd stay clear of Golden Panchax- I have one and he can be very predatory, and they get surprisingly big. I've seen him go for my angels from time to time, so I don't think betta would do very well with them, as they are top dwellers too.
You've got much more options if you keep a group of females- and I think they can look as beautiful as the males. If you really want to get some fantastic looking ones, check out the various breeders around- some of the female betta on those sites are incredible!
I've kept females with lots of different fish in the past, from tetra (stay away from nippy species like serpae and silver tips), to dwarf cichlids (laetacara and apistogrammoides), pearl gouramis, corydora, etc. with no problems

Females betta are more likely to bother each other rather than other tank mates, so as long as you choose other peaceful tank mates, there's quite a lot you could choose from. I'd go for the 36" so you have a bit more room for stocking ideas.

No idea in regards to whether rainbows would be suitable I'm afraid.

 

[Mamba]

Cheers for the advice re Panchax especially. Will definitely have to look more deeply into the types available amongst the females. I know almost less than nothing about them in all honesty.

Looking for suggestions as to species/types that would look as resplendant as the males too tbh.

 

[onidrase]

don't know about females, but mixing gouramis with male bettas is a no-no. They're closely related enough for the betta and gourami to see each other as a threat. Typically the gourami wins.

Avoid nippy fish (tiger barbs, most tetras that get above 3", every single type of danio I've ever owned) and fish that need a high current or "high oxygen content" which basically means a high current.

Good tank mates are endlers livebearers, glow light tetras, neon and cardinal tetras, and small rasboras. Sometimes guppies work alright, though I've heard horror stories about this. Mollies IME can be very aggressive.

 

[Flute]

I've had female betta work with gourami in the past, but I agree that it's asking for trouble if you mix gourami and male betta.

How about an apistogramma species? They're primarily bottom dwellers, whist betta are middle and top. You could finish it off with a group of corys and maybe a small shoal of something? Neons or embers?

 

[onidrase]

Be careful about the type of gourami as well. I know for a fact that three spot gouramis (blue/gold/opaline) will annihilate a betta in a second. Dwarf gouramis can be pretty nasty as well. Don't know about sparkling gouramis, but they do have a rather similar look to betta fiah. honey gouramis and pearl gouramis are rather mild tempered, though.

 

[Flute]

+1 again, even Pearls can be a wee bit stroppy at times

 

[babystarz]

There's a lot of variation with female bettas even within the splendens group. For example, this is one of my halfmoon girls:

Super colorful, great finnage.

And here's two more halfmoon females:

Small, not very colorful, unimpressive finnage (they were only 3 weeks old here so they do look a little more interesting now but still brown).

So it's just a matter of finding some pretty girls I've even found some stunning females at pet stores:

In general when adding another species to a sorority group, you'll want to avoid any fish smaller than your largest betta. Also I'd advise a school of whatever you extra fish you choose that is at least 6 fish to counter the aggression potential of the females singling out individual fish, for the same reason female bettas need to be kept in groups of 6 or more.

 

[Mamba]

Thanks for the info folks. You've definitely given me alot to think about.

Gourami's and Panchax are definitely out. Most of the pleco's like well oxygenated water so that probably does mean fast water current too. I use a long flexi air curtain and an oversized air pump but I assume this may be too much for the Betta's too.

Will have to think again then. I'm not too keen on the glow light tetra's and rasbora's tbh. Just never did much for me.

However I did look up the apistogramma and I really do like the look of some of them, however my PH level is typically 7.2-7.6, normally 7.4 so just out of the range of those which is a great pity as i've never come across them before and they do look pretty.Ain't that sods law up and running?

What about banded Khulli Loaches, are they compatible with Betta's or should I stick with Corydoras Julli or Sterbai for the bottom of the tank and pick a group of six or more females all in the 3ft tank? What do you reckon?

Daft question again but am I better buying all six females together or can I take the time and pick ones I like and introduce them? Will the newly introduced fish get a bit of a bad time from the dominant female?

 

[Flute]

What's your water hardness like? If it's soft, you could get away with one of the more hardy apisto species, they would adapt ok to those pH's as long as the water is soft. You could always add almond leaves and alder cones, that'll help to lower the pH a bit, and they love to hide in them too.

When introducing new females to an existing group in the past, I've always rescaped the tank first and then added the new girls. Try and get a good sized group at first, maybe 6, and then you can always add a few more fancy ones later on? Or, you never know, you might be able to find a breeder who would be willing to do a deal for a group?

I think kuhli's would be ok with betta as long as you made sure that enough food got to the bottom for them (betta are absolute pigs!). Not sure how they'd fare with apistos though. I know corys do ok along side apistos, so you never know? Hopefully someone with kuhli experience will have a better idea. Otto's would probably work well too, as long as you added them once the tank is mature.

 

[Mamba]

Cheers Flute,

At the risk of embarrassing myself, I have no idea what the water hardness is tbh. We don't tend to suffer from limescale in the kettle so I assume it's not too hard. I've only the API liquid test kit which tests for Amonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and PH. Will have to get another kit to test the hardness to be sure.

Will have to look more closely into those species. I wasn't one I thought for Cichlids generally but from what i've googled there are some very nice looking specimens. Will have to find out which are the more hardy and look into lowering the PH as you suggested with the leaves and cones.

Cheers again.

 

[babystarz]

Daft question again but am I better buying all six females together or can I take the time and pick ones I like and introduce them? Will the newly introduced fish get a bit of a bad time from the dominant female?

It doesn't matter if you buy them all together or not. I did not; one was from Petsmart, three were from a breeder in Georgia and two were from a breeder in Boston. If you do get them from different source, be sure to quarantine them individually for at least two weeks just to ensure none has a parasite or disease that will spread.

Overview on introduction:

The best time to do this is after 3 PM because dark will come soon, giving the fish a chance to rest instead of picking on each other.

There will be fighting as the fish establish a pecking order. To ensure the best possible outcome, the tank needs to be well-planted (this breaks up the line of sight) and have lots of hiding spots that fish can't be cornered in. Add all of your other fish FIRST, before any of the bettas. Give them at least a half hour to get settled in.

Then, based on your observation of the fish during quarantine, add the girls one right after another in order of least aggressive to most aggressive. With new fish it's hard to tell how aggressive they will be, but just use your instincts. I was completely wrong about my fish, the two I thought would be the most submissive turned out to be the most nippy.

You don't want to wait between adding the girls in the tank because, being territorial, the established girls will tend to gang up on a new girl they view as an "intruder." If you ever have a situation where one fish needs to be removed from the tank for an extended period of time and want to re-introduce her, you'll need to remove all the bettas, rearrange the decorations so they don't recognize their habitat and plop them all back in one after another again.

When added to the tank, the bettas will start checking each other out. You will see some circling happening and some nipping. Keep a turkey baster on hand just in case you need to squirt some water to break up a fight that seems to be getting really serious, but for the most part you should let them figure things out on their own.

After this, check on the fish every 15 minutes for a couple of of hours. Take note of any individual rivalries that seem ongoing. The fish should have their pecking order established within 48 hours and the nipping and chasing that happens after that should be half-hearted, like they're putting each other in place but not going any farther than that. If there is one fish taking things way too far after this, she may simply be too aggressive for community living. This hasn't happened to me so far, I actually had the opposite problem where a fish was so submissive and frightened that she got depressed and had to be moved. The other 5 have gotten along very well. There generally will be one alpha female in the group and the rest will submit to her.

One thing to definitely watch out for is a dominance behavior where a betta will eat everyone's food and bloat herself sick. You can minimize the chances of this happening by dropping food right in front of the girls' faces and making sure everybody is getting about the same portion.

Edit: The bettas + just the bottom feeders might be the best idea, just to avoid run-ins near the water surface. The bettas killing their tank mates is always a possibility.

 

[Flute]

If you know who supplies your water, sometimes they'll have that information on their website. For example, United Utilities supply my water here, and if I go on their website: http/www.unitedutilities.com/waterquality.aspx and stick my post code in it tells me all about the water. I don't have a test kit for hardness either, so this has come in very handy

 

[Mamba]

Thanks again to you both for all the above info it's very much appreciated.

I have looked up my local water provider, NI Water, you can't get the info on-line on water quality but there is a number to ring for the results for my local area. I'll give them a bell tomorrow.

I looked more into the apistogamma's. I like the more "common" available types rather than the rarer breeds which is new to me, as it's normally quite the opposite!!
I definitely got a lot of thinking to do. Still cycling this other tank to move my fancy goldfish into which was supposed to make the 3ft tank clear. I made the mistake of going to my LFS and seeing what they had and I came across more Chinese Banded Loaches in a top tank out of site. They weren't even labelled as for sale. There looked to be 2-3 but there were 8 in total. These are quite rare and only grow to 3.5" tops so looks like i'll have to move them all as I have 13 of these now to the 3ft tank. The intention is to put these into another 4ft tank but funds are a little tight at the mo.

 

[DreamingSmaller]

Would bottom dwellers like Cories get along well with males?